"socialism" popular in the US

March 2023 Forums General discussion "socialism" popular in the US

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    The problem is that the capitalism-minded will not sacrifice their privacy and autonomy, and are prepared to fund those luxuries to the point of burdening the working stiff (aka, taxpayers).


    The real taxpayer is not the working class, it is the capitalist class, the state is an institution financed with surplus-value. Based on that wrong conception many workers in the USA think that they are the ones paying for welfare, food stamps, and they are the ones supporting the emigrants from other countries, and that idea create division among the workers https://www.worldsocialism.org/wsm/the-taxation-myth/://www.worldsocialism.org/wsm/the-taxation-myth/


    Marcos .. we differ. I pay zero attention to the politics and words, and focus on action. I’m a ground-up person, and regard all of it as a matter of people power. And here and now, the people who refer to themselves as Urban Progressives are the people least amenable to any kind of working socialism. They are, therefore, the greatest impediment to equity. It’s patently impossible to have both endless privilege (as demanded by urban Progressives), AND equity.


    It’s a moral position, Marcos. You are either part of the problem (deliberately making yourself a potential exploiter of the State via insistence on comforts and freedoms), or part of the solution (deliberately avoiding exploitation of the State via sacrifice of comforts and freedoms).

    Having said that, I’m all for much more comprehensive social programs, in an accountable form. IOW they need to be in a form which dramatically limits their appeal to exploiters, but which will advantage the genuine.


    “I blame the Left for eroding that, via indiscriminate Welfarism.”

    I think this is where we diverge, Headbutt.

    I think such an expression as welfarism reflects the Republican talking-point of dependency of the individual on the State.

    The welfare state is the bandaid solution to the inherent poverty caused by the operation of capitalism and we can accept that it has many faults. But the capitalist class do require to apply first aid for the casualties of the system and it would be callous of us to deny the relatively miserly benefits that are offered to our fellow-workers by the employing class. We take what we can without any gratitude for the hand-outs.

    Actually the arguments for UBI is that “free money” without conditions to recipients does not increase dependency.

    You can see our attitude to UBI in this extraordinary long topic thread


    There was a historical debate that reformism should be opposed because it strengthens  the ruling class and so we should reject reforms offered to us. A bit like cutting of our noses to spite our faces.


    It sounds like Ronald Reagan who called poor women the welfare queens. The Welfare System was created during the government of Roosevelt and it was part of the New Deal, and it was financed with high taxation on the rich peoples

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