Russian Tensions

October 2024 Forums General discussion Russian Tensions

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  • #253966
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I think you are right that NATO is the aggressor in the sense of having taken steps to upset the previous status quo in the area but I don’t think they want a war with Russia.

    After Russia took military action to try to prevent Ukraine (previously a large and important chunk of the old USSR ruled from Moscow) being incorporated into the US sphere of influence through joining NATO, the US announced that its aim in supporting Ukraine was to weaken Russia by keeping it bogged down in an unending military operation.

    This is not the same as the vital economic interest that the US has in dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves and trade routes, which motivates its support for Israel and its slaughter in Gaza as a state on the ground to counter the US’s current main challenger there, Iran.

    Trump seems to realise this and seems to want the war in Ukraine to end so that the US can concentrate its military might on defending its vital economic interests in the Middle East and in opposing the challenger to its domination of East Asia, China. Of course he might just be saying this to put pressure on the European members of NATO to pay more on military spending snd relieve US spending on protecting Europe.

    #253967

    I thought we were talking about this particual situation. But if we want to widen it, but hasn’t Russia also done quite a bit of invading and bombing ‘in recent decades’?

    #253968

    ‘Trump seems to realise this.’ Do you really think that Trump realises anything?

    #253974
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Trump is a (rather eccentric) personification of the interests of a section of the US capitalist class which, under the name of “isolationism”, has always existed and which has opposed getting involved in conflicts between European states.

    This section might be a minority with in the US capitalist class, but, like the Brexiteer section in Britain, could triumph at the ballot box putting its representatives in control of the state with the power to implement its foreign policy.

    Having said this, I agree with your implication that a Trump administration is likely to be just as chaotic as was the Johnson Brexiteer government here, if only because the other section of the capitalist class will try to sabotage it.

    #253977

    I submit to this analysis.

    #253982
    robbo203
    Participant

    “While France has not announced an official position on the matter, unnamed diplomats told the French daily that Paris is concerned about the risk of escalation and has been working to avoid it, RT reported.

    “We must do everything possible to avoid World War III,” an unnamed official told the newspaper.”

    https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2024/09/15/3158760/fears-of-world-war-iii-grow-as-france-urges-caution-in-russia-ukraine-conflict

    #253983
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    But it’s up to the US, and the UK is doing all it can to get bombing permission.
    France doesn’t count here, since it’ll be precipitated by Britain.

    #253984
    robbo203
    Participant

    Yeah but that idiot Starmer doesn’t look like he is gonna get his way – assuming he is for giving Ukraine the unconditional assistance of long range missiles which is pretty sick considering the possible consequences…

    It seems the Pentagon is not in favour of the idea although the State Department is

    Sir Keir Starmer was set to leave Washington on Friday night without any announcement on allowing Ukraine to fire long-range missiles into Russia.
    The Prime Minister held talks with Joe Biden in the White House to discuss pleas from Volodymyr Zelensky to let the country use the Storm Shadow missiles.

    But John Kirby, a spokesman for the US national security council, said there would be no announcement on long-range missiles after the meeting. He did not rule out one at a later date.

    Foreign Office sources had briefed against expecting the green light at the end of Starmer’s visit, but it will come as a disappointment to leave without a decision.

    After the meeting, Sir Keir said the pair had come to a “strong position” but suggested a final decision on Storm Shadow had been deferred to the UN General Assembly at the end of the month.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/09/13/starmer-washington-no-biden-approval-ukraine-storm-shadow/

    #253986
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    At least at the UN more states will be involved, and I don’t see them allowing it. Britain isn’t popular in Europe as it is, and the US Democrats won’t want another major war putting off voters this side of the election. Am I right?

    #253987
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    The Churchill complex. All British PMs want to play Churchill, “directing” a war down in a govt bunker amid the accolades of flag-waving morons.

    #253992
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    https://inews.co.uk/news/world/british-military-chiefs-tell-starmer-to-let-ukraine-use-uk-storm-shadow-missiles-3277724

    Starmer urged to let missiles be used on Russia without waiting for US approval.

    #253993
    chelmsford
    Participant

    And the Labour government is to rush through parliament this so-called ‘assisted dying’ bill. Do you think it knows something we don’t?

    #254003
    robbo203
    Participant

    Confirmation the West vetoed Ukraine peace deal

    #254004
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    People here will continue to support UK policy.

    #254006
    robbo203
    Participant

    People here will continue to support UK policy.

    Some people will but I have noticed quite a lot of other people don’t, on platforms like Twitter and Facebook. You notice connections being made between, for example, between the apparent ease with which the UK government finds itself able to generously support the authoritarian Zelensky regime in the war against the authoritarian Putin regime but when it comes to providing UK pensioners with the traditional heating allowance suddenly the money has mysteriously run out and the state coffers are empty. Flag-waving nationalist loonies might not think much about the war possibly escalating into a nuclear conflict but a lot of people are worried and I think this does act as a kind of constraint on policy as well – perhaps not so much in the case of the sociopathic nutjobs that run the so-called Labour Party in the UK but certainly in Washington where decisions carry greater weight

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