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August 11, 2014 at 12:16 am #83129
The war that we have suffered is always linked with religion. However, religion is just put forward to protect economic obejectives.August 11, 2014 at 12:47 am #104411
why were the masses exploited in the name of religion? The religion priests have always exploited the ordinary being for economic means, respect and slavery. Fear was generated, so that he may not retaliate. Science was criticized by church, rationality was challenged by faith. God did nothing but it has empowered the capitalist class, it exploited a particular class. The purpose has always remained to spread religion peacefully, through missionarries or by waging wars, but the gains were economic mainly. Once the religious powers and preiest realised, they need resources, the greed supported the idea of war. So, nations were destroyed for the sake of some stupid people. Whether it be christianity or islam. It is clear to us how they use religion as a tool to loot resources of the world.August 11, 2014 at 6:40 am #104412ALBKeymaster
I think the argument that religion is a racket set up by priests for their own economic benefit is simplistic. Certainly some priests do well out of it (the cardinals and bishops of the Roman Catholic Church and the bishops of the Anglican church for instance and many priesthoods in the past) but I don't think we can say that this is what religion is all about. I think Marx got it right in his early atheistic writings that religion is also the cry of the opressed, the heart of a heartless world (or is it the hope of a hopeless world?), the opium of the people and that, therefore, the criticism of religion should lead on to the criticism of the social and economic conditions that give rise to the need for religion, i.e the heartless, hopeless world where the oppressed need it as a drug to cope with their misery and oppression.August 11, 2014 at 8:28 am #104413AnonymousInactive
Would capitalism be fine without religion or does it still depend on it? It certainly comes in handy to blame conflicts on. The middle east is not about capitalism it is about religion etc. There is also the argument that there is 'evil' in the world. Many on the 'left' 'centre' and 'right' blame 'evil' rather than capitalism: Maybe they need to get rid of the 'religious' idea that it is evil bankers, politicians and capitalists behind the world's miseries.August 11, 2014 at 10:36 am #104414
ALB The Madrassas and mosques( a place of learning and praying,worship) is also used for such purposed in Pakistan and Afghanistan since 1980’s. In order to save economic interest of the ruling class the innocent fellows are the victims of the priest, who are prepared to perform specific violent tasks(murder, bomb blast, kidnapping). In Hindustan/India Pundits and exploiting people in the name of religion too, Narindra modi, the current prime minister of India, is a soldier of pundits, they do not want to save the India but their economic interest.Why I have highlighted the economic interest merely, there is a reason, the political factor, religious factor, social factor, etc. What is their main purpose, a war is waged what are the outcomes, the winner occupy the resources and wealth.Read the argument again I never said it is religion, but religious people(priest, pope, pandit, swami, dev, baba, mullah, guru). What Christianity has done, and what Islam is in front of us. By Christianity and Islam I do not mean their holy books command them to do so. We are dragged in the name of religion for ruling class personal benefits. .Therefore, they are exploited. Religion is also a tool for oppressor. No it is not a hope for a hopeless world neither the heart of a heartless world, it could be if there was merely One religion. Numerous religion exist. Which religion is hope? The cry for oppressed because, oppressed thought that God listens and he will save us, but they never know that god only listen to his priests. Yes, it was the opium for people, they lost their mind.August 11, 2014 at 10:42 am #104415
Vin Maratty No, capitalism still needs and will always need the shoulders of religion. As far as my limitied knowledge of world is concerned, my experience suggests that Asia is under the strong influence of religion, so to maintain a good capitalist society religion is required to exploit them for centuries.August 11, 2014 at 11:53 am #104416rodshawParticipant
According to Wikipedia, the translation of what Marx said is:"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_peopleI assume he wasn't using the word 'soul' in a religious sense.August 11, 2014 at 12:08 pm #104417AnonymousInactiverodshaw wrote:"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".
I quoted this on another non-party forum and some one said " It is the opiate of the workers"He later admitted his error.But could it have been translated incorrectly?August 11, 2014 at 1:00 pm #104418
rodshawHow you see religion as a source of inequality of wealth? and how much religion is serving the ruling class. By religion I do not mean religious scripture but priests and people.August 11, 2014 at 1:02 pm #104419
rodshaw Therefore, they are exploited. Religion is also a tool for oppressor. No it is not a hope for a hopeless world neither the heart of a heartless world, it could be if there was merely One religion. Numerous religion exist. Which religion is hope? The cry for oppressed because, oppressed thought that God listens and he will save us, but they never know that god only listen to his priests. Yes, it was the opium for people, they lost their mind.August 11, 2014 at 2:50 pm #104420ALBKeymasterbaloch wrote:Religion is also a tool for oppressor. No it is not a hope for a hopeless world neither the heart of a heartless world, it could be if there was merely One religion.
I don't see why there needs to be a single religion to describe it as the heart of a heartless world. Different religions offer consolation in different ways. And also different ways of frightening people into obeying their precepts. Christianity and Islam teach that you'll rot in hell forever if you don't obey. Hinduism and Buddhism tell you that you'll come back as a worm. Judaism, which doesn't believe in an afterlife, teaches that your descendants will suffer for 3 or 4 generations. All ways of getting people to submit to social arrangements which, I agree, benefit an exploting, ruling class (not necessarily or even normally a priesthood). Islam actually means "submission". Full marks for honesty (but nothing else) !August 11, 2014 at 2:59 pm #104421AnonymousInactive
Hi baloch you may find this interesting: https://www.marxists.org/archive/keracher/1929/how-gods-made.htm August 11, 2014 at 10:16 pm #104422
ALBThank you for making me correct, I realized that one religion is also not a solution, after a thourough thought.August 11, 2014 at 11:41 pm #104423
Vin MarattyExtremely informative and helpfull, thank you sir :)In relation to Mohammadens, I may put some light. Their scripture says, do not consume wine and engage in adultery in afterlife you will have rivers of wine and hoors(beautiful, virgin girl, she does not bleed and sweat). Moreover, the scripture(quran) says universe was created by God, devil(iblees) was the best servent of god but he but refused to lay down his head before Adam, so since then he is devil and god has given him many powers and control.About Mohammaden, an earthquake is a symptom that god is angry. Correct your action, and follow the Quran(holy book). A mohammaden killed for Islam(religion) will go straight to jannah. They have a belief that their scripture is for the entire world. The Mullah(priests) imposes on mohammadens that the worldly life is temporary, so prepare here for hereafter. Pray more, no matter your family is starving, go for tableegh(preaching religion) and god will settle the transactions of your business.August 12, 2014 at 12:16 am #104424SocialistPunkParticipantALB wrote:Judaism, which doesn't believe in an afterlife, teaches that your descendants will suffer for 3 or 4 generations,
I always thought Judaism had some kind of afterlife in mind, though there has been some disagreement over the history of Judaism. The general acceptance today seems to be of a resurrected afterlife.Quote:The resurrection of the dead will occur in the messianic age, a time referred to in Hebrew as the Olam Ha-Ba, the World to Come, but that term is also used to refer to the spiritual afterlife. When the messiah comes to initiate the perfect world of peace and prosperity, the righteous dead will be brought back to life and given the opportunity to experience the perfected world that their righteousness helped to create. The wicked dead will not be resurrected.
This from the Jewish Virtual Library.Quote:OLAM HA-BA (Heb. עוֹלָם הַבָּא). The term olam ha-ba (literally, "the coming world") in contrast to olam ha-zeh (liter-ally "this world") refers to the hereafter, which begins with the termination of man's earthly life. This meaning of the expression is clearly implied in the statement of R. Jacob, quoted in Avot (4:17): "One moment of repentance and good deeds in this world is better than the entire life of the world to come." The earliest source in which the phrase occurs is Enoch 71:15, which is dated by R.H. Charles (Charles, Apocrypha, 2 (1913), 164) between 105 and 64 B.C.E. A synonym frequently used in place of "the world to come" is atid lavo ("What is to come" or "the future") as in Tosefta Arakhin 2:7. Often also "the days of the Messiah" are contrasted with the life of this world. An example is the comment by the colleagues of Ben Zoma (1:5) on the phrase "all the days of thy life" (Deut. 16:3) that it includes in addition to this world the era of the Messiah
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