Organisation update
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A lot of management talk but I do not see any solutions to our problems
Marcos wrote:A lot of management talk but I do not see any solutions to our problemswhat sort of thing or change you would like to se – would you consider not merely managerial?
jondwhite wrote:Lets keep in mind the SWP and SPEW employ not one or two staff, or a handful but dozens. There is a political case against staff and practical legal barriers with dire serious consequences but if they are insurmountable then why are SWP and SPEW employing staff?Perhaps because they don't have any moral or ideological objections guiding and influencing their policies, which would only aid in self destruction. We have to work for wages, we have to take social security payments, we would die otherwise. Socialists should have no moral objection to employment. If the party can afford it then it should take on full time staff, otherwise…….. well if you ask Alan Or you could ask Robin
Personally I'd prefer the self-employed option, but we've set up a committee to go into the ins and outs of all this. Let's wait and see what they come up with. The rather succesful survey was only the first, introductory part of their work.
ALB wrote:Personally I'd prefer the self-employed option, but we've set up a committee to go into the ins and outs of all this. Let's wait and see what they come up with. The rather succesful survey was only the first, introductory part of their work.Like Gwynn has explained it seems that the course of self-employment is in fact and by law not an option. Indeed there's a conflict of interest with the law and the post being an elected full-time position and paid.
Vin wrote:jondwhite wrote:Lets keep in mind the SWP and SPEW employ not one or two staff, or a handful but dozens. There is a political case against staff and practical legal barriers with dire serious consequences but if they are insurmountable then why are SWP and SPEW employing staff?Perhaps because they don't have any moral or ideological objections guiding and influencing their policies, which would only aid in self destruction. We have to work for wages, we have to take social security payments, we would die otherwise. Socialists should have no moral objection to employment. If the party can afford it then it should take on full time staff
I'm not following if you think 'the party should take on full-time staff' or it would 'only aid in self-destruction'. Whose self-destruction?
If I'm reading government sites right, we can pay £112 a week and the invididual would not be liable for income tax nor NI (of either sort). With the National "Living" Wage, that would be 14 hours a week. More than enough.
Young Master Smeet wrote:If I'm reading government sites right, we can pay £112 a week and the invididual would not be liable for income tax nor NI (of either sort). With the National "Living" Wage, that would be 14 hours a week. More than enough.That sort of figure can be designated as 'expenses'. We seem to be creating our own discussion bubble here and while I am disappointed with the size of the returns from the survey, it was just the first stage and there is more to come.
jondwhite wrote:Vin wrote:jondwhite wrote:Lets keep in mind the SWP and SPEW employ not one or two staff, or a handful but dozens. There is a political case against staff and practical legal barriers with dire serious consequences but if they are insurmountable then why are SWP and SPEW employing staff?Perhaps because they don't have any moral or ideological objections guiding and influencing their policies, which would only aid in self destruction. We have to work for wages, we have to take social security payments, we would die otherwise. Socialists should have no moral objection to employment. If the party can afford it then it should take on full time staff
I'm not following if you think 'the party should take on full-time staff' or it would 'only aid in self-destruction'. Whose self-destruction?
LOL my grammer leaves a lot to desired sometimes: Holding moral objections against paid staff would be self destructive for any political party or organisation. As i say the party SHOULD take on full time staff. Not doing so would be self destructive
I came across this quote on my daily news trawl.
Quote:"We're not speaking in language that everyone understands. The language of environmentalists has been boring, so uninspiring … If we just speak a technical language, with many acronyms and politically-correct phrases, no one will listen…You cannot bore people into action. They need to be excited and inspired to take action and change their behaviour."http://news.trust.org/item/20171219194959-ac14a/I have to plead guilty to using hackneyed cliched expressions but one thing i have learned from my copying and pasting from Marxist Archive to post on our logs is that the way of describing capitalism and socialism at one time was much more emotional and more frequently from the heart than just from the head.I sometimes see criticisms from members that an article or comment is too moralistic, strays from our materialist interpretation of the world and i wonder if that might be a mistake in how we present our case.
I should have made some suggestions on the survey form about alternative methods of organisation, here is one. Spontaneous online groups of party members – which could include sympathisers – that crop up around specific interests and/or topics. Focus groups? Project groups? Groups that can if necessary seek financial support from the party to finance projects.This would encourge spontaneity and creativity and would certainly help to decentralise activity.The groups would not be 'fixed' but perhaps single issue??
Brian wrote:HollyHead wrote:[Remember these rates are ten years old! and also lets bear in mind London cost of living rates]The present average payment in London (2017) for a full-time Office Manager is £31,789 p.a. and for an office administrator its £20,748 p.a.
If a self employed full time worker is out of the question for legal reason then why not just settle for a full time paid employee on a temporary contract renewable annually on a salary of, say, 25K – a reasonable compromise figure.in relation to the above figures? The Party can easily afford this at the present time and, if its financial situation were to deteriorate markedly in the future, it is not obliged to renew the contract. Lets be bold and try this as an experiment. Having someone working full time at HO 5 days a week with an expanded remit to undertake political work and well as adminstrative duties could very well make a huge difference and lift the whole mood of the Parrty. I'm tired of this negativism already and I have only rejoined in the last month or so! What have we got to lose apart from our ingrained depression? If the SWP can employ multiple full time staff, why can't the SPGB employ at least one full time office worker? Actually , offering a temporary contract to the person concerned would, if anything, incentivise that person to make a big impact in order to secure the contract for the following year.
robbo203 wrote:Brian wrote:HollyHead wrote:[Remember these rates are ten years old! and also lets bear in mind London cost of living rates]The present average payment in London (2017) for a full-time Office Manager is £31,789 p.a. and for an office administrator its £20,748 p.a.
If a self employed full time worker is out of the question for legal reason then why not just settle for a full time paid employee on a temporary contract renewable annually on a salary of, say, 25K – a reasonable compromise figure.in relation to the above figures? The Party can easily afford this at the present time and, if its financial situation were to deteriorate markedly in the future, it is not obliged to renew the contract. Lets be bold and try this as an experiment. Having someone working full time at HO 5 days a week with an expanded remit to undertake political work and well as adminstrative duties could very well make a huge difference and lift the whole mood of the Parrty. I'm tired of this negativism already and I have only rejoined in the last month or so! What have we got to lose apart from our ingrained depression? If the SWP can employ multiple full time staff, why can't the SPGB employ at least one full time office worker? Actually , offering a temporary contract to the person concerned would, if anything, incentivise that person to make a big impact in order to secure the contract for the following year.
It seems to me that we are saying on the one hand that we are organised and plan to create a world wide social revolution which will possibly be one of the most important events in human history and will involve billions of people on a world wide scale, however on the other hand having a full time employee might just be a bit difficult for us to get our heads around!I have run a small company, mainly employing myself and my Partner, for the last 13 years. I have acted as a consultant to several charities, etc. who have gone down the employment route. I have also helped put together a staff team to provide the care for two family members using the direct payments model, which employed several staff over several years. The process is fairly straightforward. Yes you need to have certain policies and procedures, but I have copies of current approved policies and procedures, etc. and am happy to offer advice, adapt any of the Policies and Procedures I have in current use and I am sure the woman that does all of my wage slips and calculates tax returns for us, would be happy of the work, she charges buttons and it keeps you compliant.There are literally 10s of thousands of small organisations employing staff, I refuse to believe that the process is too complicated for the SPGB. Lots of clubs, organisations, etc. have elected paid officials (Working Men's Clubs, Golf Clubs, Allotment Societies, etc.) so having a one year elected paid worker should be very easy.
robbo203 wrote:Brian wrote:HollyHead wrote:[Remember these rates are ten years old! and also lets bear in mind London cost of living rates]The present average payment in London (2017) for a full-time Office Manager is £31,789 p.a. and for an office administrator its £20,748 p.a.
If a self employed full time worker is out of the question for legal reason then why not just settle for a full time paid employee on a temporary contract renewable annually on a salary of, say, 25K – a reasonable compromise figure.in relation to the above figures? The Party can easily afford this at the present time and, if its financial situation were to deteriorate markedly in the future, it is not obliged to renew the contract. Lets be bold and try this as an experiment. Having someone working full time at HO 5 days a week with an expanded remit to undertake political work and well as adminstrative duties could very well make a huge difference and lift the whole mood of the Parrty. I'm tired of this negativism already and I have only rejoined in the last month or so! What have we got to lose apart from our ingrained depression? If the SWP can employ multiple full time staff, why can't the SPGB employ at least one full time office worker? Actually , offering a temporary contract to the person concerned would, if anything, incentivise that person to make a big impact in order to secure the contract for the following year.
Obviously, because your brain is focused on not paying the rate for the job you have forgotten the lessons learned here: http://struggle.ws/pdfs/tyranny.pdfAnd we are talking about a job that will carry a lot more responsibility and working in London and not the backend of Spain!
Brian wrote:robbo203 wrote:Brian wrote:HollyHead wrote:[Remember these rates are ten years old! and also lets bear in mind London cost of living rates]The present average payment in London (2017) for a full-time Office Manager is £31,789 p.a. and for an office administrator its £20,748 p.a.
If a self employed full time worker is out of the question for legal reason then why not just settle for a full time paid employee on a temporary contract renewable annually on a salary of, say, 25K – a reasonable compromise figure.in relation to the above figures? The Party can easily afford this at the present time and, if its financial situation were to deteriorate markedly in the future, it is not obliged to renew the contract. Lets be bold and try this as an experiment. Having someone working full time at HO 5 days a week with an expanded remit to undertake political work and well as adminstrative duties could very well make a huge difference and lift the whole mood of the Parrty. I'm tired of this negativism already and I have only rejoined in the last month or so! What have we got to lose apart from our ingrained depression? If the SWP can employ multiple full time staff, why can't the SPGB employ at least one full time office worker? Actually , offering a temporary contract to the person concerned would, if anything, incentivise that person to make a big impact in order to secure the contract for the following year.
Obviously, because your brain is focused on not paying the rate for the job you have forgotten the lessons learned here: http://struggle.ws/pdfs/tyranny.pdfAnd we are talking about a job that will carry a lot more responsibility and working in London and not the backend of Spain!
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