Marx and Automation
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MBellemare wrote:No..this is a hate-group…you truly are haters. At least, most of you, minus alan and Steve San fran., the rest of you are closer to fascism and stalinism, you are a hate-group and hate differences. You see no value in different points of views. Everyone must conform to your myopic ideology. This is the literal definition of a hate-group, hence, why there are no women on here. I want no part of this any longer, this all male hate-group
Don't know that during the war the socialist party was managed by women? The main distinction of Fascism is not hate, it is extreme nationalism and you have said that you have a country. Don't you know that that is not your country and that workers do not own any country? It is strange to see an Anarchist worshipping the nation-state concept which is a pure bourgeois conception created by the bourgeoisie itself
This user is placed on an indefinite suspension: 7. You are free to express your views candidly and forcefully provided you remain civil. Do not use the forums to send abuse, threats, personal insults or attacks, or purposely inflammatory remarks (trolling). Do not respond to such messages.
MBellemare wrote:No..this is a hate-group…you truly are haters. At least, most of you, minus alan and Steve San fran., the rest of you are closer to fascism and stalinism, you are a hate-group and hate differences. You see no value in different points of views. Everyone must conform to your myopic ideology. This is the literal definition of a hate-group, hence, why there are no women on here. I want no part of this any longer, this all male hate-groupMBellemare wrote:No..this is a hate-group…you truly are haters. At least, most of you, minus alan and Steve San fran., the rest of you are closer to fascism and stalinism, you are a hate-group and hate differences. You see no value in different points of views. Everyone must conform to your myopic ideology. This is the literal definition of a hate-group, hence, why there are no women on here. I want no part of this any longer, this all male hate-groupYet again you inflate your importance. Do you honestly think that members of the working class who have spent decades thinking about and working towards the development of Socialist ideas, with all of the social and personal sacrifices that involves, have the time and interest to “hate” you.At the risk of sounding like a teenager, get over yourself, sunshine.We are interested in developing and spreading Socialist ideas.You have put forward some ideas about economics which you have failed to back up with any form of reasoned argument.At the risk of disappointing you and your view of how important you are, I don’t give a toss about you on a personal level, yet alone have the time to hate you.Sadly however your ideas, which are a barrier to working class emancipation, need to be exposed as the blind alley they are.However to be fair, it appears from the limited interest in your half baked ideas, that the Working Class have been spared the trauma of your poorly developed concepts.
gnome wrote:All I'd like to know is how long will it be before the moderator puts a stop to these tit-for-tat kindergarden antics and returns the thread to its designated topic. The sort of behaviour demonstrated by some posters is steadily bringing the forum into disrepute – again.I agree and I thought it was against forum rules to respond to flame??? Has the IC or EC changed forum rules? Why arent forum members who are responding to this flame not suspended or warned as has been the practice in the past?
patreilly wrote:gnome wrote:All I'd like to know is how long will it be before the moderator puts a stop to these tit-for-tat kindergarden antics and returns the thread to its designated topic. The sort of behaviour demonstrated by some posters is steadily bringing the forum into disrepute – again.I agree and I thought it was against forum rules to respond to flame??? Has the IC or EC changed forum rules? Why arent forum members who are responding to this flame not suspended or warned as has been the practice in the past?
If the moderator wants to suspend me that would be fine, I face the consequences, but I will not let any individual to throw mud on the Socialist Party, and to distort the contributions made by socialists to the cause of the working class. At the beginning of the thread, I did not want to make any contributions because I have known this type of individual for many years, it is not a surprise to me, they always lose their temper and show their real nature and intentions, they always have personal conflictsAs I said before: I rest my case, it must be proven beyond any doubt that he doesn't know what he is talking about the history and the membership of the Socialist Party, his analysis and lies about Marx and Engels, and his conception about the history of socialism and its conceptions. I know that he will go to others forums to talk shits about the Socialist Party, but that is fine, he is not the first one that has done that, there are also ex-member doing the same thingIt might be a lesson for some members to avoid inviting counter-revolutionary to this forum, let them subscribe themselves, they always come to this forum like teachers and then, they leave as amateur and students
moderator1 wrote:MBellemare wrote:Dear Moderator1…please delete my SPGB account and anything tied to this account…ASAP! Consider this a formal request for account deletion.In order to have your account deleted you need to formally approach the Admin who will deal with your request. However, I need to inform and warn you that by taking this drastic action all your past posts then appear has 'Anonymous' on the forum. Which effectively deprives you of ownership of those posts should you wish to mention them or refer to them in any publication or on any other social medium/platform as the author.
I sent him a private message as 'admin' asking if he wished me to do so in light of some moderator advice to him on the Forum."Hi Micheal . Do you still wish your account deleted in light of the moderator's comments to you about your postings etc."He didn't reply.I have now deleted this account permanently.
admin wrote:moderator1 wrote:MBellemare wrote:Dear Moderator1…please delete my SPGB account and anything tied to this account…ASAP! Consider this a formal request for account deletion.In order to have your account deleted you need to formally approach the Admin who will deal with your request. However, I need to inform and warn you that by taking this drastic action all your past posts then appear has 'Anonymous' on the forum. Which effectively deprives you of ownership of those posts should you wish to mention them or refer to them in any publication or on any other social medium/platform as the author.
I sent him a private message as 'admin' asking if he wished me to do so in light of some moderator advice to him on the Forum."Hi Micheal . Do you still wish your account deleted in light of the moderator's comments to you about your postings etc."He didn't reply.I have now deleted this account permanently.
That is what he wants, he wants to be a martyr. Next time do not invite people like that to this forum, let them invite themselves and then we take care of the argumentation. They all arrive as a teacher, and then, they leave as students
@Admin, Any, maybe off topic to the thread but relevant to the thread originator and deletion of accounts. Summary. I'm impressed by Admin handling and policy in this matter of deleting MBellemare at his request. Read the rest if you want details. . .
admin wrote:moderator1 wrote:MBellemare wrote:Dear Moderator1…please delete my SPGB account and anything tied to this account…ASAP! Consider this a formal request for account deletion.In order to have your account deleted you need to formally approach the Admin who will deal with your request. However, I need to inform and warn you that by taking this drastic action all your past posts then appear has 'Anonymous' on the forum. Which effectively deprives you of ownership of those posts should you wish to mention them or refer to them in any publication or on any other social medium/platform as the author.
I sent him a private message as 'admin' asking if he wished me to do so in light of some moderator advice to him on the Forum."Hi Micheal . Do you still wish your account deleted in light of the moderator's comments to you about your postings etc."He didn't reply.I have now deleted this account permanently.
I'm finding it very interested how you implment "the right to be forgotten" in this case of MBellemare. I stuggle with a similar question on my project and how to implement it affordabily. Like on my project documents for The hOEP Project, how would I honor someones request to delete their account and/or delete any information they contributed and/or delete any reference to them but leave their words and comments. The solution I came up with, is that I only support peoples right to delete information they contributed or information about themselves. BUT, I do not support the right to my time helping them for free. In theory MBellemare already has sufficient priviledge to go through and edit everyon one of his posts to remove all of his contributions manually if she or he so desires. So it appears your system has the ability for a user to self actualize a person who is motivated to delete their own identity with that slow and tedius manual find and delete mechanism that MBellemare has available. This solution is consistent with structural anarchy and socialism and the right to be forgotten as I understand each of them. Personally, I feel that manually going back and editing all of ones comments manually to delete them one at a time is burdensome and your offer to help MBellemere by building a "delete account" convenience feature is very generous of you in regards to your time and the forethought to create such a feature is admirablle. I have similar solution I use for my project which has a policy of matching any time you contribute towards deleting your account with an equal number of matching time and effort from me to help you delete your account. So I limit my support for any "delete me" request to me matching the number of hours effort that the person requesting to be deleted can verify and prove. If you write me a 15 minute note asking to be deleted from The hOEP Project, then I will spent up to 15 minutes helping you. I think that you, admin, have met or exceeded my customer service level with this matter and deserve my congradulations and accolates for a pretty good implementation and policy for of "the right to be forgotten".I wonder though, how could you possibly scrub the name of MBellemare from all your writing. When people write back or replied to MBellemare, then doesn't that still say the words "MBellemare" even after you've "delete his account". He hasn't trully had his contributions and involvement removed from the site because to remove his name writen by others is not his right? Does his post name get changed to "anonnymous" for past postings only superficially? Can someone link to a policy or topic thread for me to continue this discussion where it might be more relevant. I'm sincerely interested in the phillosophy and implementation of SP'GB's "right to be forgotten" if there is such a policy can I read more about it's philosphy and implementation here?
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:@Admin, Any, maybe off topic to the thread but relevant to the thread originator and deletion of accounts. Summary. I'm impressed by Admin handling and policy in this matter of deleting MBellemare at his request. Read the rest if you want details. . .admin wrote:moderator1 wrote:MBellemare wrote:Dear Moderator1…please delete my SPGB account and anything tied to this account…ASAP! Consider this a formal request for account deletion.In order to have your account deleted you need to formally approach the Admin who will deal with your request. However, I need to inform and warn you that by taking this drastic action all your past posts then appear has 'Anonymous' on the forum. Which effectively deprives you of ownership of those posts should you wish to mention them or refer to them in any publication or on any other social medium/platform as the author.
I sent him a private message as 'admin' asking if he wished me to do so in light of some moderator advice to him on the Forum."Hi Micheal . Do you still wish your account deleted in light of the moderator's comments to you about your postings etc."He didn't reply.I have now deleted this account permanently.
I'm finding it very interested how you implment "the right to be forgotten" in this case of MBellemare. I stuggle with a similar question on my project and how to implement it affordabily. Like on my project documents for The hOEP Project, how would I honor someones request to delete their account and/or delete any information they contributed and/or delete any reference to them but leave their words and comments. The solution I came up with, is that I only support peoples right to delete information they contributed or information about themselves. BUT, I do not support the right to my time helping them for free. In theory MBellemare already has sufficient priviledge to go through and edit everyon one of his posts to remove all of his contributions manually if she or he so desires. So it appears your system has the ability for a user to self actualize a person who is motivated to delete their own identity with that slow and tedius manual find and delete mechanism that MBellemare has available. This solution is consistent with structural anarchy and socialism and the right to be forgotten as I understand each of them. Personally, I feel that manually going back and editing all of ones comments manually to delete them one at a time is burdensome and your offer to help MBellemere by building a "delete account" convenience feature is very generous of you in regards to your time and the forethought to create such a feature is admirablle. I have similar solution I use for my project which has a policy of matching any time you contribute towards deleting your account with an equal number of matching time and effort from me to help you delete your account. So I limit my support for any "delete me" request to me matching the number of hours effort that the person requesting to be deleted can verify and prove. If you write me a 15 minute note asking to be deleted from The hOEP Project, then I will spent up to 15 minutes helping you. I think that you, admin, have met or exceeded my customer service level with this matter and deserve my congradulations and accolates for a pretty good implementation and policy for of "the right to be forgotten".I wonder though, how could you possibly scrub the name of MBellemare from all your writing. When people write back or replied to MBellemare, then doesn't that still say the words "MBellemare" even after you've "delete his account". He hasn't trully had his contributions and involvement removed from the site because to remove his name writen by others is not his right? Does his post name get changed to "anonnymous" for past postings only superficially? Can someone link to a policy or topic thread for me to continue this discussion where it might be more relevant. I'm sincerely interested in the phillosophy and implementation of SP'GB's "right to be forgotten" if there is such a policy can I read more about it's philosphy and implementation here?
it would be something like this https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/website-technical/moderation-suggestions
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:Can someone link to a policy or topic thread for me to continue this discussion where it might be more relevant. I'm sincerely interested in the phillosophy and implementation of SP'GB's "right to be forgotten" if there is such a policy can I read more about it's philosphy and implementation here?Perhaps 'off topic' or 'website technical'
Quote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:Can someone link to a policy or topic thread for me to continue this discussion where it might be more relevant. I'm sincerely interested in the phillosophy and implementation of SP'GB's "right to be forgotten" if there is such a policy can I read more about it's philosphy and implementation here?No. Nothing that fancy as 'Right to be forgotten' anyway.Just (little understood) functions and consquences of the CMS software the Mod was helpfully cautioning the poster about.
He is just looking for a cat with five legs
@Marcos,You gave me a link for me to tell SPGB what I think Marx would say about implementing "The Right To Be Forgotten". Thanks for that. BUT! I wantedyou to tell me why and how marx would approach "the right to be forgotten" , The issue has arisen from desires of individuals to "determine the development of their life in an autonomous way, without being perpetually or periodically stigmatized as a consequence of a specific action performed in the past. . ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten . What would Marx Think of someones request to leave a socialist community. Does Marx and socialism allow that and support it philiosophically? What about distrubution of assets when someone wants to leave a socialist community such as intellectual property? Is intellectual property not owned. If so and you agree with the moderaters action to deprive MBellemere of his intellectual right to delete his property using a mode of action that results in MBellemere being denied both his right to delete his intellectual contributions to the community but even deprive him of his right to dissasociate from SPGB? The result of the disucussion is that MBellermere has had his common shared property rights to edit his own words or speak his mind removed while at the same time you @Marcos do have the rights to his intellectual contributions to SPGB. You and SPGB have somehow, though bizzare tists done the exact opposite of what you intend as socialist or marxist, In My Opinion (IMO). What would Marx say about MBellemere's sincere request to remove his contributions and affiliation from SPGB that resulted in his being denied access to immaterial intellectual objects in this manner? I think Marx must be rolling over in his grave at what you have become. As I understand it, Marx and socialist believe in the right to free association. But Marx argue that "Free association includes the right not to associate and Karl Marx would fully support the right to be forgotten". As such, Marx would deplore the events in this discussion and look down upon Marcos in pity and sadness. "So tormeted and angry, the blind man struck at all around him due to eternal pain in his impacted tooth." – The Karl Marx that I believe in.
Marcos wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:I'm sincerely interested in the phillosophy and implementation of SP'GB's "right to be forgotten" if there is such a policy can I read more about it's philosphy and implementation here?it would be something like this https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/website-technical/moderation-suggestions
full quote. . . https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/marx-and-automation?page=63#comment-47972PS. Now Stalin, on the other hand. I think that Stalin must be clapping and preparing an awards ceremony in your honor for your role in the events of this discussion.
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:@Marcos,You gave me a link for me to tell SPGB what I think Marx would say about implementing "The Right To Be Forgotten". Thanks for that. BUT! I wantedyou to tell me why and how marx would approach "the right to be forgotten" , The issue has arisen from desires of individuals to "determine the development of their life in an autonomous way, without being perpetually or periodically stigmatized as a consequence of a specific action performed in the past. . ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten . What would Marx Think of someones request to leave a socialist community. Does Marx and socialism allow that and support it philiosophically? What about distrubution of assets when someone wants to leave a socialist community such as intellectual property? Is intellectual property not owned. If so and you agree with the moderaters action to deprive MBellemere of his intellectual right to delete his property using a mode of action that results in MBellemere being denied both his right to delete his intellectual contributions to the community but even deprive him of his right to dissasociate from SPGB? The result of the disucussion is that MBellermere has had his common shared property rights to edit his own words or speak his mind removed while at the same time you @Marcos do have the rights to his intellectual contributions to SPGB. You and SPGB have somehow, though bizzare tists done the exact opposite of what you intend as socialist or marxist, In My Opinion (IMO). What would Marx say about MBellemere's sincere request to remove his contributions and affiliation from SPGB that resulted in his being denied access to immaterial intellectual objects in this manner? I think Marx must be rolling over in his grave at what you have become. As I understand it, Marx and socialist believe in the right to free association. But Marx argue that "Free association includes the right not to associate and Karl Marx would fully support the right to be forgotten". As such, Marx would deplore the events in this discussion and look down upon Marcos in pity and sadness. "So tormeted and angry, the blind man struck at all around him due to eternal pain in his impacted tooth." – The Karl Marx that I believe in.Marcos wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:I'm sincerely interested in the phillosophy and implementation of SP'GB's "right to be forgotten" if there is such a policy can I read more about it's philosphy and implementation here?it would be something like this https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/website-technical/moderation-suggestions
full quote. . . https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/marx-and-automation?page=63#comment-47972PS. Now Stalin, on the other hand. I think that Stalin must be clapping and preparing an awards ceremony in your honor for your role in the events of this discussion.
That link has nothing to do with forgotten or with Marx. It is an example of how post can become anonymous Stalin is dead and he has nothing to do with socialism. It would take you many years to have an ideological departure from the society that you grew up.
Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:@Marcos,You gave me a link for me to tell SPGB what I think Marx would say about implementing "The Right To Be Forgotten". Thanks for that. BUT! I wantedyou to tell me why and how marx would approach "the right to be forgotten" , The issue has arisen from desires of individuals to "determine the development of their life in an autonomous way, without being perpetually or periodically stigmatized as a consequence of a specific action performed in the past. . ." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten . What would Marx Think of someones request to leave a socialist community. Does Marx and socialism allow that and support it philiosophically? What about distrubution of assets when someone wants to leave a socialist community such as intellectual property? Is intellectual property not owned. If so and you agree with the moderaters action to deprive MBellemere of his intellectual right to delete his property using a mode of action that results in MBellemere being denied both his right to delete his intellectual contributions to the community but even deprive him of his right to dissasociate from SPGB? The result of the disucussion is that MBellermere has had his common shared property rights to edit his own words or speak his mind removed while at the same time you @Marcos do have the rights to his intellectual contributions to SPGB. You and SPGB have somehow, though bizzare tists done the exact opposite of what you intend as socialist or marxist, In My Opinion (IMO). What would Marx say about MBellemere's sincere request to remove his contributions and affiliation from SPGB that resulted in his being denied access to immaterial intellectual objects in this manner? I think Marx must be rolling over in his grave at what you have become. As I understand it, Marx and socialist believe in the right to free association. But Marx argue that "Free association includes the right not to associate and Karl Marx would fully support the right to be forgotten". As such, Marx would deplore the events in this discussion and look down upon Marcos in pity and sadness. "So tormeted and angry, the blind man struck at all around him due to eternal pain in his impacted tooth." – The Karl Marx that I believe in.Marcos wrote:Steve-SanFrancisco-UserExperienceResearchSpecialist wrote:I'm sincerely interested in the phillosophy and implementation of SP'GB's "right to be forgotten" if there is such a policy can I read more about it's philosphy and implementation here?it would be something like this https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/website-technical/moderation-suggestions
full quote. . . https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/marx-and-automation?page=63#comment-47972PS. Now Stalin, on the other hand. I think that Stalin must be clapping and preparing an awards ceremony in your honor for your role in the events of this discussion.
Let me clarify this messSocialism is not going to be a local community, it must be a world classless stateless society,( that is the real community ) and Marx is not going to be the leader of that society, it is going to be the world working class. The notion of nation-state belongs to the capitalist society, all those treaties and accords are decisions made between capitalist statesThe concept of leadership is deeply rooted in your mind, socialism is going to be a leaderless society, it is not going to be based on the idealist conception of historyThe possession of assets and intellectual property is a bourgeois conception, we do not support the concept of intellectual property, and in a socialist society we are not going to have any intellectual property, the concept of private possession and property belong to the class societyFree association has nothing to do with a meeting, it is an economic concept where human beings will not be controlled by the oppressive apparatus of the state, the oppression of class distinction, and free from the private possession of the means of production, a society of free producers, it is not going to be an economic systemWhat the moderator said and did is totally correct, there is nothing wrong about it
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