- This topic has 7 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 12 months ago by Anonymous.
September 23, 2012 at 11:09 am #81555AnonymousInactive
As I got the idea, the party is a sort of ethically relativist/ nihilist, as a consequence of historical materialism, correct me if I’m wrong.
I have a few questions about some concrete ethical topics and what the party and it’s membership think of them. What about- abortion (also connected with that would be the topics of eugenics and euthanasia), marriage (lbgt marriage, polygamy) and topics near that such as promisquity, public decency, pornography and also maybe prostitution. Also, I’m interested in the topic of animal rights.September 23, 2012 at 2:37 pm #89841DJPParticipant
With regards to marriage, pornography and prostitution these lose there current form if property relations where abolished. Prostitution can only exist in an exchange economy, and so could not exist in a socialist society. Similarly marriage would not take the form of a property relation, though perhaps some people would still like to commit to each other in public ceremonies. Pornography would not exist as a commodity but I can’t see why people would not still produce erotic art.All that said it is not for us to decide in advance how people should live. If socialism is ever achieved it will be up to the people then how they live it.For the present I try not to be too judgmental of other people, after all capitalism is a system in which no one is in control and we are all for the most part products of our environment (though probably not everyone will agree with me)Promiscuity? Well I’m well in favour of that!September 23, 2012 at 2:50 pm #89842AnonymousInactive
Marriage is not only a property institution, it’s about sexual relations and communal living (and child rearing), so the questions of monogamy, polygamy, lgbt marriage and promisquity remain. Also, prostitutes could “charge” by labor done for them. But I guess that’s more a question of how you think labor would be performed, totally unregulated and voluntary, or by quotas prescribed by the community (if you’r able to work, and don’t meet your quota of your contribution of work, you’re penalized, and those who don’t do any socially valuable work would be banished from the commune).You haven’t mentioned your views of abortion and animal rights, which are, IMO, the most important topics of the ones I enumerated. I seem to have forgot the topic of drug production and use.Are there party documents that adress these topics? To enumerate them again:- abortion (also eugenics and euthanasia)- marriage (lgbt marriage, polygamy)- public decency, promiscuity, pornography- drug production and use- animal rightsSeptember 23, 2012 at 2:54 pm #89843DJPParticipantFabian wrote:Are there party documents that adress these topics?
I would have thought so for most of them. You could use the ‘search’ box at the top right of the page. If any topic is missing let us know.September 23, 2012 at 3:25 pm #89844ALBKeymaster
There was an article on the theory of “animal rights” in the April 1995 Socialist Standard entitled “Do animals have rights?” Unfortunately, it is not yet up on the archives section here but a copy will be able to be got from us at 52 Clapham High St, London SW4 7UN. It answers the question “The short answer is no, But, then, neither do humans”. The introduction summarises the argument:Quote:The case for not being cruel to animals rests on the fact that this is not in the general human interest, not on the theory that animals have some inalienable natural rights. But the profit system prevents what is in the general human interest being applies.September 23, 2012 at 4:09 pm #89845AnonymousInactive
There’s a piece here which touches on the question of animal rights from the October 2005 Socialist Standard:-www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/2000s/2005/no-1214-october-2005/pathfinders “Socialists are not unduly sentimental about animals, and consider that a human’s first loyalty should be their own species. Nevertheless, the degree to which human society is ‘civilised’ can reasonably be gauged by its treatment of animals and the natural world as well as by its treatment of humans, and socialism, in its abolition of all aspects of the appalling savagery of capitalism, will undoubtedly do its part to abolish all unnecessary suffering by non-human sentient creatures.”September 24, 2012 at 8:14 am #89846Young Master SmeetParticipant
Some of these matters are addressed in our pamphlet Women and Socialism which is a touch old. But, it seems to be the nearest thing we have as a formal statement, so:Quote:Clearly there are very real medical and ethical problems involved in the question of abortion and ultimately it is for the individuals themselves to decide. However these problems are exacerbated because of the nature of the society in which we live. In a sane world, probably no one would opt for abortion as a method of contraception. The fact that women are forced to do so in present society says something about that society and the conflicting pressures to which people are subjected; for example the cost and responsibility of parenthood, the ambivalent attitude towards contraception advice for young people and the lack of resources that are devoted to researching and developing new, safer and more effective alternatives to present methods of contraception.
More generally, I’d point out it isn’t the role of the socialist party to have an opinion on everything. Our aim is the emancipation of the working class, after that humans will (for the first time) have the genuine luxury of settling ethical questions, freed from economic necessity.We deliberately and consciously avoid drawing up blueprints for socialism, or saying that everyone will be vegan or carnivorous (for example).September 24, 2012 at 9:27 am #89847AnonymousInactiveYoung Master Smeet wrote:“More generally, I’d point out it isn’t the role of the socialist party to have an opinion on everything. Our aim is the emancipation of the working class, after that humans will (for the first time) have the genuine luxury of settling ethical questions, freed from economic necessity.We deliberately and consciously avoid drawing up blueprints for socialism, or saying that everyone will be vegan or carnivorous (for example).”
Well said, Young Master Smeet. We do not have a cure for every human problem. Socialism will solve the problems that capitalism causes, and Capitalism causes many problems!
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