June 24, 2023 at 9:22 pm #244623
When my father, during his brief association with the Bund Demokratischer Sozialisten (League of Democratic Socialists), told me, among other things, that socialism would be a society without laws, police or prisons, I knew then that it would never become a reality.
It depends on what you mean by “law”. There is a tendency to associate “law” with the state and since the state is, in Marxist terms, an instrument of class rule and since socialism is a classless society there can obviously be no law in that sense in a socialist society.
However, there is a long tradition in anthropology going back to people like Malinsowki in the early 20th century referring to “primitive law” in relation to acephalous or stateless societies such as hunter-gatherer bands and some pastoralist societies (like the Nuer in Sudan). The law in this sense was often radically decentralized with often only the immediate parties in a dispute being involved in settling a dispute with the aid of some functionary (in the case of the Nuer, someone called the “leopard skin” man, if I remember correctly)
We could arguably talk about socialism having “law” – or explicitly defined normative rules of behavior. Whether there would be a need for a specialized body called the police, or institutions called “prisons” is another matter. It depends on how strictly you want to define these things.
I recall the late comrade Pieter Lawrence was a strong advocate of the idea that there would indeed be “law” in a socialist societyJune 24, 2023 at 10:06 pm #244625AnonymousInactive
Socialism can spread without people having heard of us, as threads of discontent begin to merge together.
That’s my hope anyway. And I ask of those who disagree: “What’s in the denial of socialism’s possibility for you?”
We do not even know what is going to happen to us, workers might adopt another form of organizations, as the socialist party has said that without Marx and Engels we could have created our own conception of socialism, and the workers might do the same thing, like rosa Luxembourg said that working movement in some way is spontaneous.
In a socialist society we are not going to need the ideas of Marx and Engels any more, socialism will eliminate all political struggle and political parties, the state will become an antiquity, the concept of law is going to be different, we might guide ourselves by customs like in primitive communism.
The anthropological notebooks of Marx which is more expanded than Engels book shows the customs of many society in the so called third world such as Africa and AsiaJune 25, 2023 at 12:13 am #244631Bijou DrainsParticipant
“ I recall the late comrade Pieter Lawrence was a strong advocate of the idea that there would indeed be “law” in a socialist society”
And I remember completely agreeing with him at a couple of conference debates. He made the very sensible contribution that if in a socialist society he developed a severe mental illness he would much rather be supported by regulated and qualified professionals given a choice of that or having his care needs decided upon by the local tennis club or “the village moot”.
I agreed with what he said then and I agree with him now.
I also have the view that a Socialist society would need to use the knowledge gained about health ans safety, food regulation, moving and handling, etc. to regulate areas of our lives. I don’t want to eat contaminated or unsafe foods or to take medicines that have not been investigated or researched.June 25, 2023 at 4:47 am #244642AnonymousInactive
In a socialist society we are going to find the cures of many diseases that have not been cured in this society, sciences are going to be in the hands of mankind instead of being in the hands of the business world, we are going to have more doctors and nurses, more medical schools, more research and more pathological institutes, and better curriculum, generative medicine would be in its climax, if we are able to control the stem cells we are going to be able to reconstruct many organs, the new discovery for the covid 19 might cure many brain diseases, and diabetes. Embryology is already correcting many birth defects and parents are not going to suffer so much with they have a baby with genetic problems. Why do I want to live in capitalism when we can create a better society ?
There is already a movement which I am part of that movement which is to be self sufficient and produce better foods for our body, the movement is teaching peoples how to plant and grow their own food using organic fertilizer, their own soil and ‘peoples seed”, and how to make their own seed bank, mini green. the movement teach peoples how to be their own agronimist In a socialist society we can have better and more healthy food without chemicals and poison.
https://www.desdemihuerto.com/en. this is one of the member
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Fop1sGlHVnsuLSiI_B5sg. Another member something he uses chemicals. In my own set up I do not use chemicals and I use square foot gardening and mini greenJune 25, 2023 at 7:08 am #244648Thomas_MoreParticipant
And many illnesses will disappear as pollution is tackled, poisoning of the environment halted, and the stress of life under capitalism ended. I see the number of pharmaceuticals drastically reduced, as most will become unnecessary. And with that reduction to only what is essential, so will be reduced the present vast number of debilities and even deaths caused by profit-motivated medication.
June 25, 2023 at 9:37 am #244659ALBKeymaster
- This reply was modified 8 months ago by Thomas_More.
Another late comrade used to say that there would be “lore” in socialism rather than “law”.June 25, 2023 at 9:43 am #244660AnonymousInactive
Engels call it customJune 25, 2023 at 10:24 am #244665chelmsfordParticipant
So the only thing protecting society from Mr More going berserk is a dodgy sciatic nerve.
You ought to let Lizzie take a look at that, she is a qualified physio.June 25, 2023 at 10:32 am #244666
So the only thing protecting society from Mr More going berserk is a dodgy sciatic nerve. You ought to let Lizzie take a look at that, she is a qualified physio.
What’s this irrelevant nonsense about? Perhaps we should stick to the topic which is about the relative importance of the submersible vis-a-vis refugee boats in media reporting.June 25, 2023 at 10:59 am #244667
You ought to let Lizzie take a look at that, she is a qualified physio.
No I’m not, don’t be daft. My field of expertise is astrophysics – my mentor being Sabine Hossenfelder – you may have heard of her…. but I very much doubt it.June 25, 2023 at 11:07 am #244669Thomas_MoreParticipant
“You may of heard of her.” ???
And you castigate others for their mistakes in English?June 25, 2023 at 11:16 am #244671
And you castigate others for their mistakes in English?
Touché, Thomas. But a mere typo – my command of the English language is arguably superior than that of most of the indigenous population.June 25, 2023 at 11:22 am #244674
Can we please get back on topic?June 25, 2023 at 11:43 am #244678
Can we please get back on topic?
Boring! Some of us are here to have fun!June 25, 2023 at 12:34 pm #244685
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.