January 29, 2023 at 7:56 am #239768
1. Getting Acquainted
The Socialist Party of Great Britain (SPGB) is a political party in the United Kingdom. It was founded in 1904 and adheres to a strict interpretation of socialism that emphasizes the need for a socialist revolution led by a socialist working class. The party’s platform calls for the establishment of a socialist society in which the means of production, distribution,
and exchangeare owned and controlled by the working class as a whole. It also advocates for the abolition of the wage system and the establishment of a system of social ownership and democratic control of the economy.
The SPGB is a small,
sectarianparty and has never had significant electoral success. However, it has been active in the UK political scene for more than a century and has had some influence on the left-wing of theUK politics. The party is still active and maintains a presence on the internet and at public events.
This was not written by a human (apart from my
This was generated by a computer “chat bot” called ChatGPT that anyone may freely sign up to at https://chat.openai.com/auth/login.
Before trying to fathom ChatGPT in theory, it is easier to become acquainted with it in practice.
Here’s how ChatGPT responds to a highly specific request such as writing an object for the SPGB.
Write a single sentence objective statement for a political party that stands for replacing the capitalist mode of production based upon the private and non-democratic ownership and control of the social means of production by the capitalist class of society with a socialist mode of production, based upon the common ownership and democratic control of the social means of production by the whole of society.
Our party aims to replace the capitalist system of private ownership and control of the means of production with a socialist system of common ownership and democratic control for the benefit of all members of society.
Not bad, and we’ve barely dipped our toes in…
January 29, 2023 at 7:57 am #239769
- This topic was modified 8 months ago by twc.
2. Preliminary Considerations
To forestall unfounded criticism it is important, first of all, to recognise that ChatGPT, while “recognising” its strengths, openly “acknowledges” its limitations. [Sorry, but it seems appropriate to consciously anthropomorphize ChatGPT when you are engaging with it one-on-one.]
What are the limitations of ChatGPT.
ChatGPT, like all language models, has certain deficiencies or limitations. Some of these include:
- Lack of common sense.
- Limited understanding of context.
- Lack of creativity—it does not have the capacity to create something new or original.
- Bias in the data.
- Limited to generate coherent text.
- Requires large amount of computational resources.
- Ethical concerns.
What are the strengths of ChatGPT
ChatGPT, like all language models, has certain strengths or capabilities. Some of these include:
- Generating human-like text: ChatGPT is trained on a large dataset of text from the internet and can generate text that is similar to human writing in terms of grammar, vocabulary, and style.
- Text completion and summarization.
- Language understanding: ChatGPT can understand and generate text in multiple languages.
- Question answering: ChatGPT can be fine-tuned to answer questions.
- Handling context: ChatGPT is able to keep track of context and maintain coherence across multiple turns in a conversation.
- Handling large amount of data.
- Versatility: ChatGPT can be fine-tuned for a variety of tasks and use cases.
- Large pre-trained models.
This is how ChatGPG “describes” itself (in semi-technical language)
ChatGPT is a language model developed by OpenAI. It is based on the GPT (Generative Pre-training Transformer) architecture and is trained on a large dataset of text from the internet.
The model uses a neural network with a transformer architecture and has been trained with a variant of the transformer called GPT-3.
GPT-3 is considered as state-of-the-art model in language understanding.
Fortunately there are numerous, not so technical, explanations on YouTube, but beware of YouTubers who pontificate on ChatGPT incautious of its acknowledged deficiencies or limitations. Of course, the idiomatic ChatGPT way is to ask it to clarify the technical jargon.
It is ChatGBT’s strengths or capabilities that we’ll consider next time.January 29, 2023 at 8:31 am #239771piersKeymaster
twc, that’s interesting, when it first came out I did try same basic “What is Capitalism?”, “What it is Socialism?” type questions, and was unimpressed – garbage in, garbage out as they say.
I wonder if we used the entire body of WSM literature as the data the model is trained on we could build real artificial socialist intelligence??January 29, 2023 at 11:48 am #239779
In principle, Yes.
In practice, probably No, because of:
- cost of computing resources—many parallel GPUs, high-speed storage, long compute times, etc.
- serious data curation—technically skilled management of the dataset.
Hopefully commercial chat-bot services for small [volunteer] operations like ours will become available soon.
But our greater predicament remains—we cannot ignore the world’s common platform, the internet, which is where ChatGPT is educated and conditioned in the intellectual milieu of capitalistic private-property relations, against socialist property relations of common ownership and democratic control.
From my tests I believe that ChatGPT is objectively “fair-minded” in its current form, even though it is statistically influenced against our position because ours is a minority position. So long as ChatGPT and its successors remain objective in that sense it provides an adequately powerful tool for critical comprehension of the world.January 29, 2023 at 12:40 pm #239787
The response you get depends on how you frame the request.
Here’s what I got when I asked about “modes of production”—responses are warts and all…
Describe the capitalist mode of production
The capitalist mode of production is an economic system in which the means of production (such as factories, land, and resources) are privately owned and operated by capitalists (or capitalists class) in order to generate profit. In this system, the capitalists own the means of production and hire workers (proletariat) to produce goods and services. The workers are paid wages for their labor, but the value of the goods and services they produce exceeds the value of the wages they receive. The difference between the value of the goods and services produced and the wages paid to workers is known as surplus value.
The capitalists aim to maximize their profits by increasing the amount of surplus value they extract from the workers. They do this by increasing the productivity of the workers (by introducing new technologies, for example), by reducing wages and by increasing the length of the working day.
The capitalist mode of production is characterized by the following features:
- Private ownership of the means of production
- The exploitation of labor through the extraction of surplus value
- The pursuit of profit as the primary goal of economic activity
- The creation of a class system, in which the capitalists own the means of production and the workers sell their labor power
- The market as the main mechanism for the exchange of goods and services
- The cyclical nature of the economy, subject to booms and busts
It is important to note that the capitalist mode of production is just one of the different economic systems that have existed throughout history, each with its own unique characteristics and dynamics.
Describe the feudal mode of production
The feudal mode of production is an economic and social system that existed in medieval Europe and other parts of the world. It is characterized by the ownership of land by a small group of nobles or lords, who held power and controlled the means of production. The lords granted land to lesser nobles and vassals (or tenants) in exchange for their loyalty and military service. These vassals, in turn, granted land to peasants who worked the land and produced goods and services.
In the feudal mode of production, the lords, vassals, and peasants formed a hierarchy of social and economic classes. The lords and vassals held political and military power, while the peasants were primarily engaged in agricultural production. The lords and vassals extracted surplus labor from the peasants in the form of taxes, rent and labor services such as building and maintaining castles and fortifications, and other duties.
The feudal mode of production is characterized by the following features:
- The ownership of land and the means of production by a small group of nobles and lords
- The use of land as the primary means of production
- A hierarchical social structure based on the ownership of land
- The extraction of surplus labor from the peasantry through taxes, rent, and labor services
- The lack of a market economy, with most goods and services exchanged within local communities
- The dominance of agriculture and the role of the Church in social and economic life
It is important to note that feudalism was not a single, unified system, but varied in its specific forms, depending on the country and time period. The term feudalism is used as a descriptor of a set of social and economic relations, rather than a formal system of government or political ideology.
Describe the slave mode of production
The slave mode of production is an economic and social system in which a small group of individuals, known as slave-owners or masters, own and control the labor of a large group of enslaved individuals. The enslaved people are considered property and are forced to work without pay. The slave-owners use the labor of the enslaved people to produce goods and services that they can then sell for profit.
In the slave mode of production, the enslaved people have no rights and no control over their own labor. They are treated as a means to an end, and are forced to work in conditions that are often harsh and brutal. The slave-owners use their control over the enslaved people to extract as much labor as possible, and thus maximize their profits.
The slave mode of production is characterized by the following features:
- The ownership of human beings as property
- The use of unpaid forced labor as the primary means of production
- The extraction of surplus labor from the enslaved people for the benefit of the slave-owners
- The complete lack of rights and autonomy for the enslaved people
- The use of violence and the threat of violence to maintain control over the enslaved people
- The market economy that exist where goods and services produced by enslaved people are sold for profit
It is important to note that the slave mode of production has existed in many different parts of the world and throughout history. The slave trade and slavery were abolished in many countries during the 19th century but still exist in some form in some parts of the world.
Describe the primitive communist mode of production
The primitive communist mode of production is a hypothetical economic and social system that is believed to have existed in the distant past, before the emergence of class societies. It is characterized by a communal ownership of the means of production, shared labor, and the absence of a ruling class.
In this mode of production, resources such as land, tools, and animals were held in common and were used by the community as a whole. The members of the community would work together to produce the goods and services they needed to survive, and would share these goods and services among themselves.
The primitive communist mode of production is characterized by the following features:
- Collective ownership of the means of production
- Shared labor and cooperation among members of the community
- The absence of a ruling class or hierarchy of social classes
- The absence of private property and the exploitation of one class by another
- The absence of a market economy, with most goods and services being produced and consumed within the community
- The reliance on hunting, gathering, and small-scale agriculture as the primary means of production
It is important to note that the primitive communist mode of production is a theoretical concept that is based on the study of pre-class societies and the study of anthropological data. There is no consensus among scholars about the specifics of how these societies operated, and it is likely that different societies in different parts of the world would have had different variations of this mode of production.
Describe the socialist mode of production
The socialist mode of production is an economic and social system that is based on the collective ownership and control of the means of production. The goal of socialism is to eliminate the exploitation of one class by another and to create a society in which the wealth and resources are distributed more equitably. In a socialist system, the means of production are owned and controlled by the workers or by the state on behalf of the workers, rather than by private individuals or corporations.
In this mode of production, the government plans the economy, and the workers collectively own and control the means of production, with the goal of meeting the needs of all people, rather than maximizing profits for a small group of individuals.
The socialist mode of production is characterized by the following features:
- Collective ownership and control of the means of production
- The absence of private ownership of the means of production
- A planned economy, in which the government directs economic activity
- The abolition of the exploitation of one class by another
- The redistribution of wealth and resources to create a more equitable society
- The use of democratic decision-making to determine economic policies and priorities
- The provision of basic needs such as healthcare, education and housing as a right
It is important to note that the socialist mode of production has been implemented in different ways in different countries and at different times, and there are many variations of socialism. Some forms of socialism have been implemented through democratic means, while others have been implemented through authoritarian means. Some socialist systems have used a market economy, while others have used a centrally planned economy.January 30, 2023 at 12:33 am #239796L.B. NeillParticipant
Thank you for this thread.
It seems ‘discernment’ of the material this vast ‘AI data miner’ produces really does need human conscious attention to both process and re-articulate its data into our meaning making practices.
In the mode of production queries you inputted above… I felt that there seemed something ‘afoot’ in the variations of socialist thought.
I wanted so much for it to say: ‘socialist states’ that use money is state capitalism. I wanted it to state a socialist society is yet to come into fruition.
It seems discernment of its output is still required… it is a forward processor and seems less an integrated processor-
I would hope people are encouraged to consider how to use and interrogate its ‘answers’. I consider programmer ‘bias’ may encode the ‘essences’ of their particular agenda in the search results…. lot to consider as a user, never mind the developers and their own observer/developer bias.
I’m curious to research it now, and thanks for the thread,
February 1, 2023 at 1:40 am #239862
- This reply was modified 8 months ago by L.B. Neill.
“the driving force of capitalism’s dynamism is not technology, but competition between capitalist firms, which drives them toward “constantly revolutionising the instruments of production,” as Karl Marx and Frederick Engels observed. Automation, the use of technology to increase the productivity of labor, is also driven by competition. If your company can use ChatGPT to produce three high-impact articles using the same amount of labor time it takes my company to produce one by hand, your company will have a decided competitive advantage.”February 1, 2023 at 1:40 am #239863
“the driving force of capitalism’s dynamism is not technology, but competition between capitalist firms, which drives them toward “constantly revolutionising the instruments of production,” as Karl Marx and Frederick Engels observed. Automation, the use of technology to increase the productivity of labor, is also driven by competition. If your company can use ChatGPT to produce three high-impact articles using the same amount of labor time it takes my company to produce one by hand, your company will have a decided competitive advantage.”February 1, 2023 at 1:40 am #239864
“the driving force of capitalism’s dynamism is not technology, but competition between capitalist firms, which drives them toward “constantly revolutionising the instruments of production,” as Karl Marx and Frederick Engels observed. Automation, the use of technology to increase the productivity of labor, is also driven by competition. If your company can use ChatGPT to produce three high-impact articles using the same amount of labor time it takes my company to produce one by hand, your company will have a decided competitive advantage.”February 4, 2023 at 5:22 pm #240010February 4, 2023 at 6:14 pm #240014February 7, 2023 at 1:17 am #240050
Google announced it was introducing a chatbot service, in a move anticipated to rival Microsoft’s AI-powered ChatGPT.May 7, 2023 at 1:10 pm #243210
Is AI the Productive Force that ends the Capitalist Mode of Production?
According to a leaked document from Google, proprietary AI models are a dead end.
Open-source AI models are innovating faster than ChatGPT (Microsoft) and Bard (Google). They are based on code that was leaked from Meta [Zuckerberg].
The prospect of an ascendant open-source future changes the AI landscape;
It [potentially] exposes the algorithms that “nobody understands how they work” to scrutiny, for rational formal comprehension.
This is the goal of some AI research (https://www.quantamagazine.org/cynthia-rudin-builds-ai-that-humans-can-understand-20230427/).
It [potentially] prevents AI from being turned into capital — unique for a socially disruptive productive force under the capitalist mode of production.
If so, the commercial pressure to turn open-source AI into capital will be enormous.
It [potentially] makes AI commonly owned and its use democratically controlled by society as a whole.
If so, the political pressure to monopolise open-source AI’s use and control will be enormous.
Granted the disruptive role of AI coupled with the ascendance of its implementation in non-commercial open-source, it is no longer far fetched to ask…
May 8, 2023 at 2:56 pm #243233davecogganParticipant
Is AI [potentially] the marxian productive force that shatters the capitalist superstructure and puts our social demand for common ownership and democratic control of the world’s resources fairly and squarely on the world’s agenda?
Spotted this on a news site:
In response, the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) said it was willing to offer higher residual pay and address concerns about working conditions, but expressed opposition to a number of other proposals “that the Guild continues to insist upon.”
Among the WGA’s myriad requests is a guarantee from producers that scripts will not be generated using artificial intelligence (AI), and that writers will not be asked to edit or rewrite screenplays created using the technology.May 9, 2023 at 1:37 am #243241OzymandiasParticipant
“Many of the new ideas are from ordinary people.”
I enjoyed reading this article, although I understood very little. What struck me was thinking how we’d all get on if we had the world’s resources in common. If workers can transform and update something like this radically, and within a month, imagine what the entire human species could do with the Planet. Totally unfettered.
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