Capitalism and Other Kids Stuff
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Following is a discussion on the page titled: Capitalism and Other Kids Stuff.
Below is the discussion so far. Feel free to add your own comments!This is an excellently written video communication piece.Separating historical particulars from the key issues, with the clever metaphor of toytown, works really well. It allows the vital moral questions to stand clear, in the way that the historical north American western setting used to function for dispassionate discussion of contemporary US issues.Would maybe be a good double-bill companion with Michael Moore's 2009 film "Capitalism – a Love Story"?
I think it's a very good video. I'll pass it along, post it on news media sites, maybe even start some people thinking if they can pull themselves away from their consumer toys long enough.I'm chuckling to myself as I try to imagine this being shown on TV. Rex owns the media along with everything else.If I could make one suggestion about the video: don't use the word socialism in the video. We've had centuries of propaganda against anything remotely opposed to capitalism. Socialism has become a dirty word to most people. I know this won't be a very popular idea on this forum but we really are dealing with people who are so propagandized that it might be better to leave out that loaded word socialism. Just get people thinking, that's the key.Well, since everything has a price, this has been my 2¢ worth of thought.
As part of The Socialist Party case, it is getting folk to understand that Socialism/Communism have never been tried and why!As a member in the 80's, I remember we had the same discussion, not using the terms Socialism, Comrade, Communism, ETC ETC because of their tainted misinterpretation, by our fellow workers.If we cannot even get across to our fellow workers, that these terms have been misused, what chance of getting them to understand and agree with, the need for a differntly orientated Social System?I'll stick with the original terms for now, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
steve colborn wrote:As part of The Socialist Party case, it is getting folk to understand that Socialism/Communism have never been tried and why!As a member in the 80's, I remember we had the same discussion, not using the terms Socialism, Comrade, Communism, ETC ETC because of their tainted misinterpretation, by our fellow workers.If we cannot even get across to our fellow workers, that these terms have been misused, what chance of getting them to understand and agree with, the need for a differntly orientated Social System?I'll stick with the original terms for now, thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11Fair enough! Just remember that words carry historical baggage; words are not neutral. The people socialists are trying to reach, are trying to convince, have been through Rex's school of propaganda and they get turned off by words like comrade, communism and even socialism. Socialism shouldn't be a dirty word to anyone but reality is different and it's reality that we're dealing with – capitalist reality.
I started on this path, 33yrs ago. I've been through it. I understand the pros, the cons. I understand that "baggage" comes with "words", with terminolgy. However, when do "WE", start setting the "agenda", not merely being reactive?Are you a "Member"? If not why not? If not, you do know that sitting on the fence, as well as being an exercise in futility, gets you spelks in ur arse?
Cass struggle and revolution cannot be dressed up. Don't patronise workers, we know what needs to be done. A rose by ant other name. Fuck bourgeoisie terminology. Revolution through class struggle is what we are about. If they don't like it they can fuck off.The earth is owned by a parisitic minority and we aim to take it off them. if they don't like it then bully for them.
Far be it from me to flog a dead horse so this will be my last post on this thread (cue the bugle).My point was just that we, socialists all, have to deal with the situation as it is, not as we'd like it to be. I see this as being realistic not reactive.No, I'm not a member because I've never been very good with rules, never been one to toe the party line. I'm a socialist and I don't consider the conversations I have with people, the comments I post on social media, to be futile. There's more than one way to skin a cat.Thanks for the word "spelk", it's a new word for me! Kinda rolls off the tongue, doesn't it. So, I'm off to get a mirror and some tweezers to pluck the spelks from my oh-so-otiose arse!
You are right about it being a dead horse. Wrong direction for the party. A bag of shite actually.
Actually Richard, you haven't addressed the issue, why should we, Socialists, Revolutionaries, forego our rights to use "OUR" language?They have not, tainted it from where I stand and I'm not prepared to allow them to disavow "my" use of these terms, going forward!!! That clear enough for you?
Dear Comrades,I admit my guilt before the Party. I admit that I have waged a struggle against the Party, against Socialism and against the proletariat. I have used every weapon known to me: open discussion, free thought, the introduction of new ideas and many other reprehensible activities.I admit that I am guilty of sins against the Party, of being an organizer of anti-Party thought and of being a traitor to the Proletariat. My political outlook was tainted by bourgeois ideology and I have failed the Party in every way imaginable.The Party's generosity is not unlimited. There are no arguments which I can use in my defence. I cannot atone for my monstrous crimes, for my failure in my struggle to obey Party doctrine.Sincerely,Comrade Richard
Richard wrote:Dear Comrades,I admit my guilt before the Party. I admit that I have waged a struggle against the Party, against Socialism and against the proletariat. I have used every weapon known to me: open discussion, free thought, the introduction of new ideas and many other reprehensible activities.I admit that I am guilty of sins against the Party, of being an organizer of anti-Party thought and of being a traitor to the Proletariat. My political outlook was tainted by bourgeois ideology and I have failed the Party in every way imaginable.The Party's generosity is not unlimited. There are no arguments which I can use in my defence. I cannot atone for my monstrous crimes, for my failure in my struggle to obey Party doctrine.Sincerely,Comrade RichardLOL Richard. Which reminds me also that apart from other ways of putting across the message , humour is pretty effective…. On the question of terminology I have sympathy with both sides of this "debate". I think the answer is to tailor the use of terminology to suit the occasion. On some occasions, that might mean not using the term socialism at all. However on a more general point I think it is fair to say that people who react positively to the word "socialism" are likely to be the ones who are probably more receptive to what socialists are saying anyway and that consequently there is a case for using targeted propaganda that makes use of terms such as "socialism"
Interestingly, I was talking to my wife's nephew about politics a few days before election day. He's doing a politics degree at York Uni and asked me what I thought about the election.So I told him I was a socialist etc. etc., and he fully understood what I was on about. He said, off his own bat, that what had happened in Russia and China had given socialism a bad name. This is from someone under 20. So maybe that politics degree is doing some good.
If the Money Free Party are in fact anything like the SPGB, as has been suggested in another thread, then maybe we can use them as a gauge of how socialist ideas spread without the use of the S-word. See how many Facebook followers they get compared to us, etc.
rodshaw wrote:If the Money Free Party are in fact anything like the SPGB, as has been suggested in another thread, then maybe we can use them as a gauge of how socialist ideas spread without the use of the S-word. See how many Facebook followers they get compared to us, etc.Money Free Party has over 9,000 followers on FacebookAnd over 72,000 followers on Twitterhttps://www.facebook.com/nick.tapping.16?fref=tshttps://twitter.com/moneyfreepartyCompared to the SPGB unofficial Facebook which I cannot access but I believe it has less than 2,000 followers.And its Twitter account has 6000 followershttps://twitter.com/OfficialSPGB.There could be other reasons for this difference rather than the use of terminology .
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