A German Coup Foiled?

February 2023 Forums General discussion A German Coup Foiled?

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  • #237453
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63885028

    The group of far-right and ex-military figures are said to have prepared to storm the parliament building, the Reichstag, and seize power. A minor aristocrat described as Prince Heinrich XIII, 71, is alleged to have been central to their plans.

    Plotters are said to include members of the extremist Reichsbürger [Citizens of the Reich] movement, which has long been in the sights of German police over violent attacks and racist conspiracy theories. They also refuse to recognise the modern German state.

    They had already established plans to rule Germany with departments covering health, justice and foreign affairs,

    #237454
    ALB
    Keymaster

    There is another group in Germany that is seeking to overthrow the government there but not by means of a violent coup. They are planning to do this by the non-violent civil disobedience. But it is still minority action and so undemocratic. Like Just Stop Oil (who they are linked to and share the same ideology and strategy), they think they can overthrow the government with about 3.5 percent of the population engaged in such action.

    https://letztegeneration.de/en/

    The German secret police, however, don’t take them seriously:

    https://amp.dw.com/en/german-last-generation-group-not-a-threat-to-democracy/a-63789202

    #237457
    robbo203
    Participant

    It would seem that this group had links with the right-wing Qanon movement and also sought to establish links with the right-wing Putin regime. Birds of a feather flock together I guess….

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/german-prince-with-links-to-russia-and-qanon-arrested-over-plot-to-overthrow-government/ar-AA14ZYj8?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a87f0d4e53e0460ca77fb60e85db1fe0

    #237466

    Qanon has several branches in Russia and all of them support Putin, therefore, anybody who supports Putin is also supporting the reactionaries theories of that ultra right group, and there are many so called leftwing and socialists/communists groups who also support Putin

    #237470
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Letzte Generation is inspired by Roger Hallam, the chief ideologist and strategy of Just Stop Oil. Here is his view of how civil disobedience by only about 3.5% of the population can bring about “regime change”:

    “We must adopt the most successful model for regime change shown by the social scientific research – the civil resistance model. This involves mass participation civil disobedience: tens and hundreds of thousands of people blocking the centres of cities to demand change. There are a number of tactical options, but the main process is as follows: • The people conduct mass mobilisation – thousands need to take part. • They amass in a capital city where the elites in business, government and the media are located. • They break the law – they cross the Rubicon. Examples include blocking the roads and transport systems. • They maintain a strictly nonviolent discipline even, and especially, under conditions of state repression. • They focus on the government, not intermediate targets – government is the institution that make the rules of society and has the monopoly of coercion to enforce them. • They continue their action day after day – one-day actions, however big, rarely impose the necessary economic cost to bring the authorities to the table. • The actions can have a fun atmosphere – most people respond to what is cultural and celebratory rather than political and solemn. After one or two weeks following this plan, historical records show that a regime is highly likely to collapse or is forced to enact major structural change. This is due to well established dynamics of nonviolent political struggle. The authorities are presented with an impossible dilemma. On the one hand they can allow the daily occupation of city streets to continue. This will only encourage greater participation and undermine their authority. On the other hand, if they opt to repress the protestors, they risk a backfiring effect. This is where more people come onto the street in response to the sacrifices of those the authorities have taken off the street. In situations of intense political drama people forget their fear and decide to stand by those who are sacrificing themselves for the common good. The only way out is for negotiations to happen. Only then will a structural opportunity open up for the emergency transformation of the economy that we need.”

    This is taken from his 2019 manifesto Common Sense in the 21st Century.

    There is evidence that in his mind the action started by Just Stop Oil at the beginning of October —and in Germany currently — could be the beginning of a movement he expects could rapidly bring about regime change.

    In his manifesto he also declares:

    “We should not make the mistake of thinking ‘the people have to rise’ in the sense of the majority of the population. We need a few to rise up and most of the rest of the population to be willing to ‘give it a go‘.”

    I can see why the German secret police don’t take this seriously. Because it isn’t serious in the sense that it is not going to happen. Also because it is open and non-violent. But that doesn’t detract from the fact that the declared aim is “regime change” by minority action.

    #237473

    https://oll.libertyfund.org/page/1776-paine-common-sense-pamphlet

    The Common Sense Manifesto goes back to 1776 from Thomas Paine and American bourgeoisie thinker applauds by the Socialist Labor Party of America. Similar ideas advocated by the peoples who stormed the US Congress thinking that they were able to make another bourgeoisie revolution like the 4 of July, they are still living in the past because capitalism already made its own revolution, and some leftwing groups are still applauding the French capitalist revolution

    #237478
    ALB
    Keymaster

    You are right. Hallam sees his Common Sense in the 21st Century as a modern-day version of Tom Paine’s book, and says so explicitly.

    This makes the political philosophy behind his justification for engaging in civil disobedience, ie not obeying the law, surprisingly old-fashioned. It’s based on the ‘social contract’ theory of the origin of government that underlies the 1776 American Declaration of Independence. This famously declares that all humans have “certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,”

    adding

    “That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.”

    Hallam subscribes to this myth that government exists to serve and protect its citizens and argues that, in not doing enough to protect its citizens against climate change, the government has failed in its ‘duty’ and, worse, has betrayed those they are supposed to protect. Hence their “natural right” to “rebel” against it — and Hallam’s strategy to overthrow the existing political regime and institute “new government”.

    As you point out, this right to rebel was also (though for a different reason) claimed by many who took part in the riot on the Capitol in January last year.

    I am not sure if the German Letzte Generation group use the same argument to justify their “rebellion”.

    #237481
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    We also have those individuals who follow the concept of the sovereign citizen.

    I watched a few videos on YouTube of court cases, usually minor traffic infractions and these self-taught “lawyers” declare themselves exempt from the law.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_citizen_movement

    #237489

    Scott Ritter is one of those new son of the New American revolution, he is part of that right wing movement, that is the reason why he is supporting Putin like most QAnon groups

    #237490

    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster
    We also have those individuals who follow the concept of the sovereign citizen.

    I watched a few videos on YouTube of court cases, usually minor traffic infractions and these self-taught “lawyers” declare themselves exempt from the law.

    Those propia persona lawyers always lose the case, because the US legal system is very complex, and tax code is also very complex, some cases can be done as pro per ( or pro se ) but many of them have been forced to pay a high amount of taxes and the interest accumulated is very high, and they have accrued the debts for several years, the government of Joe Biden and the Internal Revenue Service have employed thousands of new employees to collect old tax debts and to make new auditing, and it does not make any difference if you hire a tax lawyer

    #237508
    ALB
    Keymaster

    The German plotters seem to have a different justification for not obeying the German state — that they owe their loyalty to a previous incarnation and regard the present one as illegitimate.

    The IRA used to regard itself as the government of the whole of Ireland on the basis of elections in 1918 (which meant that Ireland was a military dictatorship) and presumably its various offshoots still do. Nobody else did but it was the philosophical basis for their violence.

    #237509
    Lizzie45
    Participant

    Scott Ritter is one of those new son of the New American revolution, he is part of that right wing movement

    Yet a further example of you talking out of a place where the sun doesn’t shine.

    #237525

    Scott Ritter is one of those new son of the New American revolution, he is part of that right wing movement

    Yet a further example of you talking out of a place where the sun doesn’t shine.

    I know what I am talking about, Scott Ritter is part of the movement of the so called Common Sense Manifesto,initiated by Thomas Paine, he is just another right wing journalist, the New American Revolution is part of the movement of the QANOn. Read books in order to have opionions

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_the_American_Revolution Dr Gerald Herald who is a prominent American Historian have mentioned all these bourgeoisie process and I have read several of his books,

    #237527
    Thomas_More
    Participant

    Conspiraloons don’t tend to like books much. They are averse to knowledge.

    #237534

    Lizzie45
    Participant
    Scott Ritter is one of those new son of the New American revolution, he is part of that right wing movement

    Yet a further example of you talking out of a place where the sun doesn’t shine

    This is the second time that you have attacked me in this forum without any valid reason, I have let it pass because you are a woman, but next time I am going to answer you in the proper way and I going to forget that you are a woman, and I will not care if the moderator throw me out, then do not come to raise the flag of discrimination against women You do not know me and I know how to answer back properly

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