robbo203
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Just as there is a spectrum of political opinion along which one can place different organisations in terms of their proximity to or distance from our way of looking at the world so there is spectrum of political opinion within such organisations and indeed within the SPGB too. We shouldn’t make the mistake of regarding organisations as monolithic entities
I regard the MFP as being very much “fellow travellers” in wanting essentially what we want. Sure there are some differences in approach but markedly less so than in the case of Frescoists and I am not sure all such differences apply in the case of particular individuals within the MFP
It would be worth discussing what these differences are and whether they can possibly be narrowed or even overcome. I agree with Alan that some kind of joint discussion meeting with them might be fruitful
Nick Tapping is still around as he puts in an occasional appearance in our Facebook page. He knows us of old.
Nick’s views are vert close to ours if not identical – like this one I just come across on the MFP FB site:
“Marx envisioned a global society which has made the monetary system and the state obsolete
What most people think of as communism is in fact state controlled capitalism..ie, the state controlling capital”A strong argument for a self regulating system of stock control as key mechanism for resource allocation in a socialist society
We must make it clear from the start that we are not of that ilk. Unfortunately, as soon as “socialism” or “Marx” are mentioned, no one wants to listen, because of the damage the Left has done!
This is true up to a point, I do notice though a countermovement even within Left circles to somewhat undo the damage the Left has historically done. It began with a open disassociation from Stalin (commencing obviously with the Trots) and in small ways is working towards a disassociation from Lenin, in many ways the fountainhead of the rottenness we have had to put up with as socialists. The concept of “Marx the ecosocialist” is a way of expediting this process…
There is also Howard Parson’s book “Marx and Engels on Ecology” (1977) – a classic of sorts and a great source of quotes illustrating their sensitivities to ecological issues
Netanyahu accused the International Criminal Court of anti-Semitism over its plan to pursue a war crimes probe in the Palestinian Territories.
“New edicts are being cast against the Jewish people – anti-Semitic edicts by the International Criminal Court telling us that we, the Jews standing here next to this wall…in this city, in this country, have no right to live here and that by doing so, we are committing a war crime,” he said. “Pure anti-Semitism,”Is there any evidence that the ICC is calling into question the so called right for Israel to exist or is thus just the delusional rantings of a Zionist nationalist? The sooner all nation-states disappear along with capitalism off the face of the earth, the better! At least we wont have to put up with these stupid childish nationalist mind games any longer
This landed in my in-tray
Might be worth contributing to the comments section
If we truly are to have confidence in the working class, why do we assume the Left are the ones more likely to kick things off: with their long training in leftist contempt for us?
They are the ones responsible for our isolation, and their language repels the majority of workers.And yet it remains the case that the Left are more receptive to socialist ideas than the Right. I am willing to bet good money that far more members of the WSM came from a Left or labour background than came from a Right or Tory background. This has implications for how we target our propaganda
I think it indicates that rather than seek out the Socialist Party as some of us are hoping, those who might share some of our ideas will persist within the Labour Party and carry on banging their heads against the brick wall.
Perhaps they ought to be contacted and asked to explain how some of their ideas are compatible with them remaining in a capitalist political party albeit one with good intentions
I don’t think the Socialist Party and the WSM should be looking for political juncture like the leftwingers,
That is not what was being suggested. Of course nobody is saying we should seek common cause with left wing reformists if that is what you are implying. I am merely suggesting we should maybe focus more on targeting the Left, persuading them to embrace socialism as a political objective , because all things being equal, left wingers tend to be more receptive to socialist ideas than right wingers. Probably more so now after the crushing defeat of the Labour Party which so many on the left had joined in the expectation that things would change
People associate us with Trots, and don’t hang around for explanations and history lessons.
True but there is always a spectrum when it comes to people. We need to target those more likely to hang around for explanations and history lesson
There will be stiff competition for their attention coming from Trotskyists saying that what is needed is a disciplined vanguard party to lead the workers and anarchists calling for so-called direct action in the streets to get reforms.
True . But the influence of Trot organisations has diminished considerably in recent years and I cant see the anarchists making much headway in their protest much as I prefer them to the Trots. At least some of them are more on our wavelength. I think the time has arrived when the Socialist Party will finally begin to make some real progress providing we do things properly and dont botch things up
It looks like a no deal Brexit is once more a possibility. If that happens what are the likely consequences?
Oh dear, here we go again. Look what happened with Catalonian nationalism
If some here are correct in their educated guesses that we face an unprecedent reign of Parliamentary power from Johnson with his Commons majority, where can the opposition go but on to the streets.
One thing is for sure. The Tories are going to fail woefully in living up to their expectations. Its the same with any Party trying to administer capitalism. Give it a year of two and the Johnson government is going to be deeply unpopular – particularly once Brexit is done and dusted and the chickens come home to roost
What of the opposition? I take it as axiomatic that people on the Left tend to be more sympathetic to socialist ideas than those on the right. It thus makes sense to target more of our efforts on the former rather then the latter.
Declining support for a Tory government is going to translate into thousands of workers trickling back to Labour. The so called “red wall” in the North of England is going to rebuild itself brick by brick. The political cycle in which Labour alternates with the Tories in running capitalism is going to reassert itself.
And so we are going to find ourselves back to square one. All the more reason to focus our efforts particularly on those left inclined workers who voted labour and whose illusions have been shattered by this election. The idea that a Jeremy Corbyn government, for all its good intentions , would have made a fundamental difference to the lives of ordinary workers needs to be vigorously challenged. Its one thing for politicians to make wild promises, its quite another trying to keep them. In capitalism there is no such thing as a free lunch and what you gain on the one hand you lose on the other
Labour will come back from this bruising defeat but I strongly suspect it will only do so by moving to the right in a bid to capture the centre ground. That will be the moment of truth for those on the left who have entertained illusions that labour’s agenda is some sort of socialist agenda. Will they continue in their wishful thinking that capitalism can be administered “in the interests of the many not the few” or will they finally give up on this pointless pursuit of the holy grail. And how can we best encourage them to take the latter course of action?
