alanjjohnstone
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Where is the Socialisme Mondial banner?….It would still be useful and its not that big so easy enough to pack, but i agree with Vin…a special WSM banner should be designed and used…We have the WSM globe unite for socialism but i think we can include in a new one something related to the global environment.,,,a slogan that's original ..So no "System change not climate change" as it is now passe…something completely different."Socialism or Extinction" seems a bit extreme and some might dispute it but i like itWhat about "Unite for Socialism, A World to Win, A Planet to Save" ?Maybe we can run a contest for the best slogan…Not so sure that the logo would pick up too many votes
Not just SpainPolice asked a university to hand over a list of members of the public who were due to attend a public debate on its campus about fracking… police have been monitoring political activities at universities around the country, and spying on groups that use non-violent methods to further their aims. Last year it was revealed that police attempted to recruit an activist to become an informant and pass on information about Cambridge University students and other protesters…At Lancaster University, police took photographs of two posters reading “Not for Shale” and “End Israel’s attacks on Gaza” in the office window of the students’ union president. They told her she was potentially committing a public order offence.http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/15/police-university-list-fracking-debate
Using anti-slavery laws…shame they cannot be used against wage-slavery http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/dec/15/three-arrested-slave-factory-manchester
I go for that too, it is not an either/or. As people say, we are capable of both. We can use the May workers fair event as a dry run for the logistics/travel arrangements/accommodation and stuff. I am sure many will like to meet up with the comrades involved with Bataille Socialiste who do great work re-posting articles on the web.Still would like a WSM banner to be made though….and a updated pamphlet to complement Inconvenient Question… to be multi-lingual …DarrenO/John Bisset did one for the London World Social Forum several years back which was easily put together from existing articles and done in HO. We should have a new workable printer/duplicator with members acquainted with its operation by then, shouldn't we?
This article makes unsettling reading
Quote:the UK figures are almost too large to make sense of. We slaughter nearly one billion animals (cattle, sheep, pigs, poultry) a year for the sake of endless cheap meat. Farming on such a scale not only kills the animals, it deadens our perceptions of and respect for other forms of life. As Animal Aid says, they become commodities, packed into the agricultural equivalent of Amazon warehouses.TWC, i am sure what you say is true enough. As i said, you caught me at not my best…the heart was speaking louder…but who would want to always hold that part of us down, which i think Robbo was trying to sayBut lets be honest …we have accuratey described capitalism and we have accurately described the solution – socialism. But what we have not done, and our present situation is proof of this, is to connect both of these sufficiently to convince others to become active. One ex-member suggested to me that the SPGB has no real process of politics in that it can make change happen. Lets be again honest, we have the socialist standard that no-one buys…in fact, we no longer try to sell it! We have website and blogs that fail to attract visitors (oh, i am sure the internet committee will swiftly quote traffic figures that say contrary but just how long do the stay for reading the content) We have a relative non-existent on the ground presence. Some people actually do think we have disappeared like the SLP and the ILP, and your own SPA did. Our works are rarely quoted or cited in any literature.,, i could gloom and doom go on …I think we forgot that it is not ourselves, nor our D of P, that is going to do bring socialism but the working class through-out the world.What you or I or the SPGB do or say, really isn't going to be make much difference. Perhaps those who rely on spokespersons such as Russel Brand may reflect on that. If i become a rabid anti-socialist, if i resign, or depart this world, nothing is going to be seriously affected. The same for yourself and above all, it is the same for the party, itself. We can fade and disappear and the world will go on without it. That's what the MCH really says. We are involved in forces that are beyond our influence until we do become an actual real material force ourselves…and that is why we should keep a sense of proportion….we are a long way from achieving that…a trillion million miles away.But saying that, the only reason that socialists should be in the Socialist Party is because they believe that it has the potential to play a part, no matter how small or large, in building the mass movement of working people which is the only agency capable of rebuilding society.Anyways a few quotes from Pannekoek. “The class in struggle isn't a regiment of identical puppets marching in step and accomplishing great things through the blind force of its own movement. It is on the contrary a mass of multiple personalities, pushed forward by the same will, supporting itself, exhorting itself, giving itself courage. The irresistible strength of such a movement is based on many different strengths all converging towards the same goal.”“The Marxian conception of history puts living man in the center of its scheme of development, with all his needs and all his powers, both physical and mental. His needs are not only the needs of his stomach (though these are the most imperative), but also the needs of head and heart.”“Marxism is a new way of looking at the past and the future, at the meaning of life, the world and thought; it is a spiritual revolution, a new view of the world. As a view of life, however, Marxism is real only through the class that adheres to it. The workers who are imbued with this new outlook become aware of themselves as the class of the future, growing in number and strength and consciousness, striving to take production into their own hands and through the revolution to become masters of their own fate. Thus Marxism as the theory of the proletarian revolution is a reality, and at the same time a living power, only in the minds and hearts of the revolutionary proletariat.”“Marxism itself is a living theory which grows with the increase of the proletariat and with the tasks and aims of the class struggle.”There is the cliche that the role of a socialist party is to "Educate, Agitate, Organise"…these three things we must examine in ourselves because in all three we exhibit weaknesses yet fail to make the most of our strengths. We have to address this trinity, this trio of stategies. However, i have taken advantage of the moderators tolerance a bit too much by de-railing this thread, so i better stop now and let you get back to your knowledge
Your post and many similar messages from others on related threads has made me angry, maybe even a bit irrational from fury …but it is from frustration that we cannot discuss the immediate problems that socialists face and simply compound them with meaningless disputes that do have their place for those interested…but not at the expense of what is really needed, a serious challenge to capitalism and the so-called alternatives and all the time spent contributing to threads such above is time wasted that could be better aimed and re-directed to all those discussion forums on politics.
TWC, I'll wear sackcloth and ashes and self-flagellate in penitance for my crimes against socialism and the Socialist Party and this WSM forum. I'm a poor unfortunate sinner deserving the wrath of the Great Marx in the Sky… Get a grip and get some perspective and realise your own unfounded sense of self-importance… I'm not of the view the D of P are the 10 Commandments and any contravention equates blasphemy.We are emotional beings and we have to tap into that. I could have easily have said that socialism is all about hope, aspirations, inspirations, confidence, faith, pride, courage and strength and other such subjective factors. Objectivity is for those who sit in judgement of others and daren't dirty their hands with actual practice of their theory. There is a story of an SPGB speaker who declares that the SPGB is not perfect and it has in the past made mistakes…which led to the obvious question…and what mistakes were they?…and he stammered and stuttered and for the first time a SPGB speaker was speechless. Maybe it is time to have a good hard look at ourselves and just discover where we could be wrong and when we could have taken a different course. … Robbo is right…we cannot separate our objective mind from our subjective heart…In the past perhaps we have given undue prominence to the brain than to our gut-feelings. We have pushed away potential comrades because we proclaimed objectivity above all. We find ourself terrified to use words such as justice or morality or ethics in our case because of objectivity. Because we are objective our language is not that of those we seek to talk with. And we wonder why no one listens or heeds.I accept the SPGB has an educational role but we have a lot to learn ourselves about how to teach(now you got me in an even darker mood)
Quote:The relevance is that Claus Peter Ortlieb was formerly quotedMy point exactly, what is his relevance…who the fuck is he and just who cares what he says…hands up the those who have had him quoted or his work mentioned at a public meeting…Come on, lets get back to the basics…leave the academic crap where it deserves…in dusty tomes on library shelves and at tedious university symposiums…When he or people like him pose a threat to the case for socialism, sure critique him, but truthfully….i'm not going to meet him on a picket line, and unlikely to read anything by him through the paywall Jstor site, am i , and that is being objective. Is socialism objective? Nope …its about passions, anger, righteous outrage …or it should be. What did Marx say?…when there exists two rights what prevails is down to might. So i really don't care about if some intellectual tries to disprove the validity of socialism…our case is that we will demonstrate the truth of our argument by winning. (You still caught me in my bad mood)
My devious plan, TWC, as i have said several times before on various threads…and they always turn out to be the lengthy ones with very few participants….i can never really see where they lead to…they end up in circles and repeating themselves…and what does it all prove apart from some being able to use words that i have no idea of their meaning, (even those using them end up disagreeing on their definition) and citing experts who few has heard of much less read, so i occasionally throw a spanner into the works, rattle the cages, stir the shit, and add my tuppensworth. We have an urgency in the need to not only communicate our ideas which has an extremely limited adience but even a greater need to convince those who do actually come across us of the validity of our case…I think too much energy is spent navel contemplation rather than practical politics…even if it is simply an exchange on image and logos, or how to make a presence felt on the internet, or stand candidates in elections…As Morris says our aim is making socialists…not scoring philosophical debating points with one another that interest no-body. Newcomers to the forum respond to the threads that are about socialism, not the ones such as this or those others. Its time to relate our arguments to what people are actually experiencing…and if we have to use the occasional abstraction let it be connected with something of everyday importance explained as clearly and simply as we can with words and images that they understand. That alone is a challenge to accomplish and we should be spending more time on that. Every month the issue of the Standard should be dissected and discussed for strengths and weaknesses, where is the thread for that? It's time to get the priorities right for a socialist political party. Time to re-focus our energies and apply ourselves to the simpler things in life such as persuading our fellow workers of the benefits and viability of socialism…The only sure knowledge i know of, btw, is the taxi drivers test and now even that is redundant technologically.(you caught me at a bad time where i'm more apt to be in a grumbling mood)
By coincidence i came across this critique of Copernicus and his theories. I was going to post it on the science thread where Lbird argued that the "fact" that the Earth goes around the Sun was mere ideology but since this is an active thread, here will do.
Quote:While most of us today assume that our brilliant scientific minds, space exploration programs, and high-tech telescopes and equipment have long since proven that the Earth orbits the sun, Mr Delano explains that no experimental evidence has ever been obtained that unequivocally proves this to be true. As historian Lincoln Barnett states in The Universe and Dr. Einstein, "We can't feel our motion through space, nor has any physical experiment ever proved that the Earth actually is in motion." Hence, Mr Delano states that the Copernican Principle is not a scientific fact, but rather a metaphysical assumption supported by profoundly convincing ideas and theories. His film, The Principle, is the first documentary ever to directly examine the scientific basis of the Copernican Principle by bringing together top scientific experts in a commentary, which he says, will leave us questioning our very place within the cosmos.Farage's take on Questiontime and Brand is here, light-weight and limphttp://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/nigel-farage-me-vs-russell-brand-on-question-time–hes-got-the-chest-hair-but-where-are-his-ideas-9919668.html
Quote:Everyone fancied that Mr Brand and I might butt heads, but actually, as we entered the studio, and his personal make-up artist straightened his chest hair for him, I kid you not, I realised that perhaps he might be a bit lighter weight than expected.We expected too much in personalties and it is a lesson we always offer but sometimes don't heed. Brand himself called it anti-climatic and comments thatFrom his Facebook page via Medialenshttp://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1418375863.html
Quote:the woman who says “Why are we talking about immigrants? It’s a side issue, this crisis was caused by financial negligence and the subsequent bail-out”. This piece of rhetoric more valuable than anything I could’ve said, including my pound-shop Enoch Powell gag. More potent than the one thing I regret not saying because time and format did not permit it. That the people have the wisdom, not politicians, that the old paradigm is broken and will not be repaired. That the future is collectivised power. Parliamentary politics is deadThe emphasised part is something we all agree….Parliament being dead is a soundbite until he actually explains collectivised power…As said and will be for a long time….the Scottish collective involvement in the referendum demonstraates that people will participate and not just passively but actively in the streets, explaining positions and challenging those held by eachother without blows being struck or bricks chucked. We failed in many respects in our referendum actibvity but the importance of our principle of political action was a victory, something we must crow about when they try to diminish the fact that we advocate electoral politics to give power to the people. I also regret we have not sufficiently highlighted this in the post-referendum days.
California because of prison overcrowding and the cost of incarceration passed Proposition 47, reclassifying a lot of felon charges into misdemeanour offences so releasing large numbers of prisoners. Other US states are set to follow. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/11/14/california-feloniestomisdemeanors.htmlI don't think it will be moral or educational arguments which will prevail but economic arguments and one thing that in the US in particular faces is the privatised prison industry who require lots of inmates and so support more strict sentencing of offenders and exert pressure against relaxation of various laws such as drugs.
