Religious Believers in London

July 2020 Forums General discussion Religious Believers in London

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 62 total)
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  • #204724
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Many Hindus, including Gandhiji, were and are opposed to the caste system, which was an Aryan imposition on Hinduism and not native.

    At least Hinduism is standing in the way of the beef capitalists, who would like it gone.

    #204725
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    I think when it comes to hinduism, what is being meant by Mutual Aid is that there is no established church or agreed doctrine or ritual, but a series of various diverse festivals and that it is very much a life-style religion. A way of life for many Indians, just as is the many guru cults such as Amma, the hugging mother. I never visited her ashram but saw it from a distance and it is the size of a small town.

    Christianity and Islam were originally popular escapes from the caste system and the innumerable pentecostals, adventists sects which have sprung up is evidence of how low-status hindus embraced them but in practice they all still practice it informally such as in marriage etc.

    But the question is, should we treat religion with one approach fits all or should we acknowledge differences of degree. Is Islamic beliefs the same as the Quakers.

    We had a previous discussion on Early Christian Communism

    https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/topic/jesus-was-a-communist/

    Isn’t becoming a socialist a series of stepping stones?

    We attend the Diggers and Levellers celebrations so we do see that we can link early socialistic ideas to modern day socialism.

     

    #204727
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks Alan.

    It seems some cannot rush fast enough to judge another socialist and stick him into a compartment (labelled “heresy” perchance?… as in the current flood of retorts on the “Socialist Revolution” thread too).

    The elitism is often that practised by party members, who look down their noses on the masses who are as they are now, today, their beliefs, cultures, customs, religions. Such members talk about Leninist elitism, yet disdain everything that doesn’t fit with their Marxism, yet knowing very little about anything else. Millennia of Hinduism’s existence and development and diversity for a start!

    #204733
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    The caste system, which was an Aryan imposition on Hinduism and not native.

    It was contained in the Vedic texts, how far back do you want to go????

    I think the clue to your feelings about Hinduism is “Hinduism is standing in the way of the beef capitalists”

    https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/10/05/farmers-murder-part-of-indias-rising-hindu-nationalism.html

    (Irony alert) Yup, I can clearly see the link to the Quakers, right bunch of violent murderous bastards, that lot.

    “The elitism is often that practised by party members, who look down their noses on the masses who are as they are now, today, their beliefs, cultures, customs, religions. Such members talk about Leninist elitism, yet disdain everything that doesn’t fit with their Marxism, yet knowing very little about anything else. Millennia of Hinduism’s existence and development and diversity for a start!”

    You accuse others of being elitists who look down their noses, yet here you are looking down your nose at those who “know very little about anything else”. Bit of the kettle calling the pot a dirty arse. Also making the presumption that others know very little about anything else is a pretty dangerous path to go off on, you often find that the others know far more than you credit them with.

    #204736
    rodshaw
    Participant

    I have a suspicion that by far most people who profess a religion in the statistics are not very devout. They mostly do their worship for social/family or ‘just in case’ reasons.

    #204738
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    And with Hindus it is all about social/family reasons. Which is why there are materialist sects as well as heavily theistic ones. Not to mention a vast range of dietary and other customs.

    I still see in socialism, where the need for theistic crutches has died away, the wish, for most, to continue to mark stages of life, and death. I see the blossoming of diversity, whereas capitalism imposes mass mediocrity and conformism.

    #204740
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    Our blog did a very long series of diverse posts on religion under the title of Sunday Sermon

    https://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/search?q=sunday+sermon

    However, to address this immediate question, this one might be relevant

    https://socialismoryourmoneyback.blogspot.com/2013/04/sunday-sermon-casting-out-caste.html

     

    #204741
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The Vedas came with the Aryans, who, by the way, were also massive beef eaters and horsemeat eaters. Their dietary habits were reformed due to the Dravidian native influence of the Upanishads. The caste system stuck. It is opposed by many Hindu scholars who are aware of its history.

    My comment is due to the fact that I find generally Marxists to be more obtuse and closed off than many regarding aspects of life, thought and ideas beyond that of Marxian political economy. Let’s face it … Apart from that, and the analysis of capitalism, Marx as a man has very little to give compared to other men and women of letters.

    #204745
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    A beef ban sounds good to me, Bijou.

    Let’s hope the beef capitalists are always kept frustrated in India and don’t ever get the horrendous mass murder of millions of cows for profit that we have here.

     

    #204755
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    A beef ban sounds good to me, Bijou.

    Let’s hope the beef capitalists are always kept frustrated in India and don’t ever get the horrendous mass murder of millions of cows

    So the Hindus are fine, you can insight mass murder, pogroms, religious oppression and nationalism, as long as you don’t hurt the lickle fwuffy bunnies.

    Well your entitled to your opinion, I’m off to gut a pheasant.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by Bijou Drains.
    #204748
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Wikipedia:

    The caste system as it exists today is thought to be the result of developments during the collapse of the Mughal era and the rise of theBritish colonial regime in India.<sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTEde_Zwart2000_1-1″ class=”reference”>[1]</sup><sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTEBayly2001392_6-0″ class=”reference”>[6]</sup> The collapse of the Mughal era saw the rise of powerful men who associated themselves with kings, priests and ascetics, affirming the regal and martial form of the caste ideal, and it also reshaped many apparently casteless social groups into differentiated caste communities.<sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTEBayly200126–27_7-0″ class=”reference”>[7]</sup> The British Raj furthered this development, making rigid caste organisation a central mechanism of administration.<sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTEBayly2001392_6-1″ class=”reference”>[6]</sup>Between 1860 and 1920, the British segregated Indians by caste, granting administrative jobs and senior appointments only to Christians and people belonging to certain castes.<sup id=”cite_ref-8″ class=”reference”>[8]</sup> Social unrest during the 1920s led to a change in this policy.<sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTEDirks2001b215–229_9-0″ class=”reference”>[9]</sup> From then on, the colonial administration began a policy of divisive as well as positive discrimination by reserving a certain percentage of government jobs for the lower castes. In 1948, negative discrimination on the basis of caste was banned by law and further enshrined in the Indian constitution; however, the system continues to be practiced in India with devastating social effects.

    Caste-based differences have also been practised in other regions and religions in the Indian subcontinent like Nepalese Buddhism,<sup id=”cite_ref-LeVine_10-0″ class=”reference”>[10]</sup> Christianity, Islam, Judaism andSikhism.<sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTECohen200121_11-0″ class=”reference”>[11]</sup> It has been challenged by many reformist Hindu movements,<sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTEDirks2001a3_12-0″ class=”reference”>[12]</sup> Islam, Sikhism, Christianity,<sup id=”cite_ref-FOOTNOTECohen200121_11-1″ class=”reference”>[11]</sup> and also by present-day Indian Buddhism.<sup id=”cite_ref-Omvedt1_13-0″ class=”reference”>[13]</sup>

    #204797
    Matthew Culbert
    Keymaster

    That above comment was caught in the ‘pending’ file on 30th June and I only just notice it.

    You can see why the software rejected it  ‘suspicious’.

    #204812
    alanjjohnstone
    Participant

    https://www.weeklyworker.co.uk/worker/1306/recolouring-the-past/

    Coincidental is this article claiming Jesus the Christ was a national liberation revolutionary who was misrepresented by Saul of Tarsus.

    So not so much painting his statues black or brown , but instead – red.

    Whereas i tend towards the interpretation that he was a eschatologist, preaching the approaching apocalyptic doomsday that “the end of the world is nigh…”

    Sort of like myself in many ways 😉

    #204813
    Matthew Culbert
    Keymaster

    Whereas i tend towards the interpretation that he was a eschatologist, preaching the approaching apocalyptic doomsday that “the end of the world is nigh…”

    Sort of like myself in many ways 😉

    Jesus Johnston?

    Nah! He if he were around today he would be “a drugstore truck driving man, the head of the Ku Klux Klan”.

    https://lyricstranslate.com/en/joan-baez-drug-store-truck-driving-man-lyrics.htm

    #204815
    L.B. Neill
    Participant

    It depends on how you read scripture! For some it is capital business as usual. For others: lets get rid of money.

    Good thing is: we are all reaching for that utopia- Jesus painted the place ‘bright red’.

    Alan: the day of doom is always followed by bloom- sounds quirky… but there yo go!

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 62 total)
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