PRESIDENT Donald Trump
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ALB wrote:Actually, Clinton will have got more votes overall than Trump. It's just that he got more delegates to the Electoral College that formally elects the president in the US:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-us-election-results-latest-popular-vote-electoral-college-a7407826.html
It is one of the most backward electoral system, and it is very propense for electoral fraud, instead of the US government and the UN sending electoral delegates to others countries, they should send some foreign delegates to watch the US election.The electoral college system is Just a vestige of the system of slavery . Instead of one general election there are 50 elections done in the primaries. The so called founders of the US they did not believe in Democracyhttp://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/electoral-college-slavery-constitution/Based on the amount of votes, she should have been the elected president, that is what would have happened in others countries.Most of the states that voted Republicans they were Democrats during the primaries, and most them inclined toward Bernie Sanders, which means that Sanders was the only candidate able to defeat Donald Trump.Another aspect is that Latinos, Blacks and Asian also voted for Donald Trump which means that the card of Racism can not be played on everything, and many whites that voted for Trump also voted for Obama, and many peoples that voted for George Bush also voted for Obama.The good aspect of this mess is that the word: SOCIALISM is not a dirty word in the USA,
Interesting article on the origin of the Electoral College system.Even this system might have reflected more the popular vote if the members of the college reflected the vote for each candidate in each state, as can happen in two states and did happen this time in one (Maine):http://www.pressherald.com/2016/11/08/mainers-take-matters-into-their-own-hands-after-bitter-presidential-campaign/The US election system is so full of anomalies like this, and especially as regards who gets on the voter register (and who doesn't) differing from state to state, that the US is not really in a position to give lessons on democracy to other countries. As you say, if UN election observers were allowed in, their report would be very revealing.
The electoral college was anti-democratic by design. Yes, 128.8 million Americans cast a ballot in 2016, out of 231 million eligible voters—a turnout rate of 55.6 percent. (Wikipedia): but a working class that doesn't vote, that doesn't exist as part of the electoral process is barely a class in itself, never mind a class for itself.People talk about voter supression,a nd there must have been a lot of that, also, there are forms of gerrymandering simply by being perceived to be ahead (I imagine in, say, Tennessee, some dems might not have bothered voting, likewise republicans in California).The section of the working class, skilled manual and skilled clerical, the "middle class" as defined by American folklore, seem to have veered to Trump, while some of the porest workers seem to have gone to him as well.
Young Master Smeet wrote:The electoral college was anti-democratic by design. Yes, 128.8 million Americans cast a ballot in 2016, out of 231 million eligible voters—a turnout rate of 55.6 percent. (Wikipedia): but a working class that doesn't vote, that doesn't exist as part of the electoral process is barely a class in itself, never mind a class for itself.People talk about voter supression,a nd there must have been a lot of that, also, there are forms of gerrymandering simply by being perceived to be ahead (I imagine in, say, Tennessee, some dems might not have bothered voting, likewise republicans in California).The section of the working class, skilled manual and skilled clerical, the "middle class" as defined by American folklore, seem to have veered to Trump, while some of the porest workers seem to have gone to him as well.It is so anti-democratic that the Black slaves run to Haiiti where they had more legal protection and more freedom
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2016/Pres/Maps/Nov11.html#item-1It seems the big shift is the fall in voters: it seems the Dems lost because their vote fell. Also, the polls were callign it right, alatest results are putting Clinton ahead on teh total vote, so it was the electoral college that knacked her.
Young Master Smeet wrote:http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2016/Pres/Maps/Nov11.html#item-1It seems the big shift is the fall in voters: it seems the Dems lost because their vote fell. Also, the polls were callign it right, alatest results are putting Clinton ahead on teh total vote, so it was the electoral college that knacked her.The Democrats leaders digged ( dug ) their own grave when they made several maneuvers to stop the nomination of Bernie Sanders, in any way, they knew that he is just a self named socialist, and his ideas and political platform has nothing to do with socialism, he is one of them, and his past proves that he is one of them too.Voters in the general election were confronted with a dead end, the US political system is based on the cult of personalities, it is not based on political principles. Some followers of Bernie Sanders voted for Trump. The US ruling class can not talk against the cult of personalities of the Soviets when they have the same problem, and the cult to military heroes like the Soviets, several military have been presidents tooThe 2016 election in the USA is a real mess, and it is an indication of the debacle of the ruling class, and it has shown that between both political party there is not difference and both are controlled by the same elite. I do not think the Green Party will evolve this time was an alternative due to the fact that they did not obtain sufficient votes to be considered as an official political, that is another barrier that has been created by both in order to keep their own dictatorship.Frederick Engels in 1892 wrote a letter in regard to the US two party system, and in that letter he indicated that it is going to take a long period of time to some sectors of the US capitalist class to form a third capitalist party, and I might that it will take a long time for a real socialist party like the WSPUS to have large support or membership from the working class, another problem that they might confront is the variety of languages and cultural origin of the US working classhttps://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1892/letters/92_01_06.htm PS: In that letter Engels used the expression Yankees, and it was criticized in another forum because I used the expression Gringos, which is an expression coming from Spain which meant: Foreign
robbo203 wrote:alanjjohnstone wrote:How long will it be before Trump back-tracks on all his policies and threats?Hasn't he already done so? Wasn't he threatening beforehand to bring criminal charges against Clinton if he was elected. His acceptance speech seems to suggest he has changed his mind on that score and now wants to …er…"heal the divisions" that afflict Murrica. Pity. I was quite looking forward to Clinton being prosecuted. I hope Corbyn sticks to his promise about putting Blair in the dock as a war criminal
He is already backing up on some of his campaign issues. Pretty soon he is going to say that the Mexican wall has already been built, in reality, the wall is already there, and it is longer and higher than the Berlin Wall. Like a Mexican comedian said: The Gringos can build walls, but we have tunnels.The issue that the Mexican as individuals are transporting drugs it is a lie, and statistic from the federal government shows different factsThe biggest transportation of drugs from Mexico to the USA is not carried by individual jumping over the fence, it is transported by trucks in front of the noses of the US federal officers, and the other biggest transportation of drugs takes place thru the seaports.With the legalization of Marihuana in several states the production and sales of Marihuana from Colombia is going to decrease rapidly, even more, at the present time the USA territory is one of the biggest planter of Cannabis. In Canada the sale of Cannabis is bigger than the sale of beers.
One more U-Turn it seems…and this time a major campaign promise
Quote:Donald Trump has said that he might not repeal Obamacare, perhaps his biggest campaign promise.The President-elect performed the apparent U-turn after his meeting with Barack Obama at the White House this week, he has said. Mr Trump is going to look at "amending" the Affordable Care Act, rather than completely repealing it, he told the Wall Street Journal.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-obamacare-repeals-latest-policies-quote-replacement-president-elect-a7412621.htmlHow many more to come? And when will it reach the point where his hard-core supporters begin to understand betrayal, although those who held their nose and rather vote Clinton opted for Trump will be relieved that he is transforming into a conventional pragmatic politician.
alanjjohnstone wrote:One more U-Turn it seems…and this time a major campaign promiseQuote:Donald Trump has said that he might not repeal Obamacare, perhaps his biggest campaign promise.The President-elect performed the apparent U-turn after his meeting with Barack Obama at the White House this week, he has said. Mr Trump is going to look at "amending" the Affordable Care Act, rather than completely repealing it, he told the Wall Street Journal.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-obamacare-repeals-latest-policies-quote-replacement-president-elect-a7412621.htmlHow many more to come? And when will it reach the point where his hard-core supporters begin to understand betrayal, although those who held their nose and rather vote Clinton opted for Trump will be relieved that he is transforming into a conventional pragmatic politician.
Pretty soon his supporter are going to be on the streets protesting along with the others protesters
"History repeats … first as tragedy, then as farce"
alanjjohnstone wrote:One more U-Turn it seems…and this time a major campaign promiseQuote:Donald Trump has said that he might not repeal Obamacare, perhaps his biggest campaign promise.The President-elect performed the apparent U-turn after his meeting with Barack Obama at the White House this week, he has said. Mr Trump is going to look at "amending" the Affordable Care Act, rather than completely repealing it, he told the Wall Street Journal.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-obamacare-repeals-latest-policies-quote-replacement-president-elect-a7412621.htmlHow many more to come? And when will it reach the point where his hard-core supporters begin to understand betrayal, although those who held their nose and rather vote Clinton opted for Trump will be relieved that he is transforming into a conventional pragmatic politician.
Trumpy said that he was willing to take advices from Obama. He has been in power for eight years, therefore, he knows pretty well the handbook of the White House.Obama care is a lobby of the powerful Pharmaceuticals companies, and the Insurance industry, ( the choice was Obamacare or TPP ) , if he interferes with them, he can get a palace coup. Within 10 years their profit is going to be around 35 billions dollars.Trump transition cabinet is going to be composed of corporate lobbyists which is another back lash of his campaign promises. Some of them were related with the government of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Are the American workers coming back to the old days of Ronald Reagan, George Bush SR, and George Bush JR ?
Here's Russel Brand on Trump's election:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ou5uFFn8Q&feature=push-u&attr_tag=X_DnzuPjAQw-6Perhaps surprisingly, not all that bad.
When comedians choose to make public political pronouncements, i expect them to funny. Brand failed to raise a chuckle or a chortle which means he has no more privilege to promote his ideas than either you or i . TYT, Samantha Bee, and John Oliver make their points with clever humour . https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC18vz5hUUqxbGvym9ghtX_whttps://www.youtube.com/user/LastWeekTonight
Anybody can laugh at and raise a chuckle at Trump's expense but Brand (speaking as an individual like you and me not as a comedian) was trying to do more than this. In fact he was trying to be funny at all but to offer an explanation why people who wanted a change from the existing status quo were so desperate as to try even an option like Trump, despite them knowing how offensive and absurd he is, and that this says something too about conventional politics and politicians.I'm not sure how valid this analysis is but at least it's a serious contribution to the debate.
Young Master Smeet wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/11/08/us/politics/election-exit-polls.htmlSo, according to this exit poll, the poorest in society backed Clinton, what it looks like, though, is skilled workers ($30K+) went with trump. Also, notetrump is up 16% among the lowest group: some leftists are trying to spin against the 'Trump captured the poor' theme, but that's a huge grab of votes.Vaoufakis comments hre:https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2016/11/09/trumps-triumph-diem25-on-how-progressives-must-react/He's right, there is a reactionary inernational being organised.maybe. I'm linking to an article that says something similar but a little different. The trump voters were primarily the ones in jobs that were "routine" which agreable hover around 30k+ on average as your data argues. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-was-stronger-where-the-economy-is-weaker/ p.s. I'm fairly neutral on the hillary vs clinton issue and only cared for Bernie. I think this website link I provided is unbiased politically. they seemed biased towards the use of data and not much else.
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