Paris Attacks
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alanjjohnstone wrote:See Message #8, LBird,
My apologies, alan, I didn't see your earlier post when replying to robbo's. Good to see that someone else has historical perspective.
ajj wrote:But when police over-react and murder, it is not terrorism and not to be rememberedMy point entirely.Whilst robbo calls only one side 'scum', we should be aware that both are, and that the same 'security forces' now being lauded as 'our protectors', will be the same ones who toss innocents into the Seine after torture.Workers like us will be the ones trying to swim with broken arms.
As i feared and mentioned in an earlier post, the Paris attack will be used as an attack on the refugees …Convenient for Marina Le Pen, Farage and all the others, a Syrian passport has been found that links one suspected terrorist to a refugee registered in Greece…as has an Egyptian passport been found …so included in the suicide bomb vests were ID although the only verified participant was a radicalised French national, …i simply don't believe it…i have a feeling ISIS planted false passports that somehow survived an explosion to create another refugee crisis with more border being closed …we already see anger and some violence escalating…another recruitment campaign for ISIS, perhaps …create chaos and discriminationhttp://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/15/paris-attacker-named-investigation-continues-live-updates#block-5648725be4b091c2edb6cd9f
Seems my guess of the passport was on the right lines
Quote:A U.S. intelligence official told CBS News that a name and picture were recovered from the Syrian passport and the individual was not known to intelligence officials. However, a U.S. intelligence official told CBS News the Syrian passport might be fake. The official said the passport did not contain the correct numbers for a legitimate Syrian passport and the picture did not match the name.http://www.cbsnews.com/news/paris-attacks-teams-extremists-france-prosecutor/and
Quote:A U.S. Intelligence source told Milton investigators have so far seen no insider knowledge in the chatter or communications that is being intercepted to verify who was involved. While there have been people saying glowing things about the Paris attack, no one has revealed information about the attack that only the attackers would have knowledge of, the source said.I think it was premature to look at ISISas anything other than a Frankenstien’s monster created and manipulated by sections of the middle eastern ruling class for geo-political and economic reasons; and even the religious Sunni-Shia thing is at least for its creators, a fig leaf for more pecuniary general interests. Although the time may have arrived when the creators of ISISmay start to loose control of it as it spontaneously begins to follow and act on its own ideology. I believe ISIShas been developed with massive infusions of Gulf ‘capitalist’ oil money to combat the pernicious influence of the Iranian state capitalist model; which so happens to be also Shia. There are pressures or economic desires within the gulf stateseven amongst the petty capitalists and larger non oil sector capitalists to have the oil industry revenues nationalised and taken out of the hands of the private individuals and clans of the feudal monarchies. And the revenue spread around a bit more for general nationalist economic development. Eg from elsewhere; After Hugo Chávezofficially took office in February 1999, several policy changes involving the country's oil industry were made to explicitly tie it to the state. In addition, he attempted to strengthen Venezuela’s infrastructure and other national industries to move the country towards a more developed nation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Venezuelan_oil_industry#Nationalization and; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway “The Nordic model is underpinned by a free market capitalist economic system that features high degrees of private ownership with the exception of Norway, which includes a large number of state-owned enterprises and state ownership in publicly-listed firms.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model I don’t think that is always the case that all the indigenous capitalist and petty capitalist class are opposed to this kind of thing; as well as it being an idea that can have superficial appeal to the lower ‘working classes’. Often dressed up in leftist sounding ideological rhetoric. The leftish (and libertarian catholic) rhetoricof Chavez etc is too familiar to bother expounding upon. However what is often overlooked is very similar material that has come out of Iranrecently; despite perhaps a more recent slight move towards the ‘right’. Thus in 2012 Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speech at the UN General Assembly he denounced, actually free market, capitalism as opposed to state capitalism in terms that could have straight out of the mouth of Chavez or Castro himself. “-Development planning based on capitalist economy that runs in a vicious circle, triggers unhealthy and devastating competitions and is a failed practice.” “Fortunately, we are now at a historic juncture. On one hand, Marxism is no longer around and is practically eliminated from the management systems, and on the other, capitalism is bogged down in a self-made quagmire. It has indeed reached a deadlock and does not seem to be able to come up with any noteworthy solution to the various economic, political, security and cultural problems of the world. NAMis proud to once again emphasize the rightfulness of its historic decision to reject the poles of power and the unbridled hegemony ruling the world. On behalf of the members of NAM, I would like to invite all countries of the world to play a more active role in making it possible for everybody to contribute to the global decision-making processes. The need to remove the structural barriers and encourage the process of universal participation in global management has never been greater before.” http://mic.com/articles/15364/mahmoud-ahmadinejad-un-general-assembly-speech-video-translation-full-transcript#.9pBsh4N0w And; http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-01-11/Ahmadinejad-Iran-Cuba/52509546/1 In fact in some ways the ‘Iranians’ look like theocratic Bolshevik state capitalists of the 1920’s with their own version of an Islamic Comintern. In Europe, as Bolshevik state capitalism at least captured the imagination of the masses, it lead to terror amongst the capitalist class leading to the support of ‘national socialist’ fascists to hold it in check. Not that the ruling class was particularly in political harmony with the fascists; rather following the principal of an enemy of an enemy is a friend. As the Iranian regime and theocracy is irretrievably entangled with the Shia branch of Islam the gulf state ruling class have decided to exploit that difference; rather than the one that really matters to them the threat of being nationalised. As far as the ‘West’ or Americais concerned its real objection to Iranis probably of the same nature as it is to Cubaand Venezuela. If Iran, Cubaand Venezuelaall consider themselves state capitalist fellow travellers why not take their word for it? It shouldn’t be a surprise that the USin particular has been taking a somewhat ambivalent position to ISIS and their ilk as it is only a repeat of history re the Contra’s in Nicaraguaand the kaleidoscope of fascist regimes it supported in central and South America. In a world of my enemies enemy is my friend we can a bewildering array of strange alliances. eg http://www.mintpressnews.com/the-alliance-between-israel-and-saudi-arabia/209548/ The Israelis are no doubt delighted to see the Muslims of all descriptions knocking seven shades of shit out of each other and desperately need the water resources of Shia occupied south Lebanon. Ironically I think these ISIS people, apart from their more obvious anti Shia takfiri position; may also have an political/economic agenda that has the potential bite back at the gulf stateshands that have fed it. The problem passages in the Quran are the ones juxtaposed to each other below. Sahih International Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors. http://quran.com/5/32 Sahih International Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment, http://quran.com/5/33 The first is often interpreted as prohibiting killing anyone of the Abrahamic faith (Jews Christians and any other self described muslisms) apart from murder or ‘corruption’. The second can be interpreted as a freedom to mutilate anyone who opposes the true faith
james19 wrote:Imagine – Pianist In Paris. ^^^A twitter account describing the Paris attacks in a tweet on 11/11/15 before they occured has been suspended. It is being described on twitter as 'weird'The account was @pzbooks
Vin wrote:A twitter account describing the Paris attacks in a tweet on 11/11/15 before they occured has been suspended. It is being described on twitter as 'weird'The account was @pzbooksFire enough shots at random and a few of them will hit home by chance…http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/30803/did-this-twitter-bot-predict-the-paris-shootings-2-days-before-it-happened
Statistical Probability? About the same as winning the lottery? Winning it a thousand times? Remarkable coincidence if nothing else.Wonder why the account was suspended?
Vin wrote:Statistical Probability? About the same as winning the lottery? Winning it a thousand times? Remarkable coincidence if nothing else.Wonder why the account was suspended?There's nothing remarkable about it at all. Because of the vast amount of events happening the chances of an improbable event happening are quite high. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Improbable_things_happenAt a guess the account was banned because it was a random message generating bot and not a real person.Either that or there's a conspiracy to block the tweets of time travellers.
DJP wrote:Either that or there's a conspiracy to block the tweets of time travellers.Well, more people still believe that the earth is flat than there are members of our party, if you prefer to talk nonsenseOh but wait that is not nonsense, it's a fact
Vin wrote:I don't think 'Nutters' can explain this; let's not forget other 'nutters' that give rise to more 'nutters' Paris is horrific but it is not the first.. Just another chapter in the horrors of capitalism. Palestinian, Afghan and Itaqi citizens are butchered daily by 'nuttersWhy would this post be flagged?Or was it the photos of the innocent children dead as the result of the sytem we seek to abolish?Or is it simply that I proposed capitalism as a cause and not simply 'nutters' ( a little embarrasing for a socialist analysis)
LBird wrote:.They know that, no matter how many innocents they murder, the response of The Real Terrorists in our world will be to murder even more of those from whom the 'guerillas' originate. Since that potentially supportive population will have already experienced much worse violence and many more deaths from murderous policies of The Real Terrorists, than happened in Paris, they will have little sympathy for those murdered in Paris.I was referring to the Muslim population in France. My suspicion is that they're now more likely to want to strongly disassociate themselves completely from the likes of ISIS post Paris, rather than court more yet Islamophobia which is not in their interest. The statement from the British Council of Muslims seems to bear this out . In this sense the ISIS strategy is counter productive in that it is likely to reduce the pool of potential supporters among Muslims in western countries with Muslims themselves taking the initiative in this regard in coming out against ISIS in blunt forthright terms. It is also counterproductive in that it is likely to prompt a stronger military response to add to the pounding that Russian warplanes are currently delivering. But yes for Muslims living in the places like Syria, I agree that the outrage that occurred in Paris is unlikely to weigh that heavily on their minds
LBird wrote:Capitalism is recruiting for a war. Calling only one side 'scum' is dangerous, and shows a bias to the ruling class.I'm quite happy to call the ruling class scum as well and have done so. And i have repeatedly pointed out on forums that I am involved in that this is a case of reaping what you sow, ISIS being the outcome of western military adventurism in the main. That doesn't make ISIS any the less scum though
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