Nearly 6000 ‘died due to hospital wait’

January 2023 Forums General discussion Nearly 6000 ‘died due to hospital wait’

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  • #228694
    james19
    Participant

    Just seen this in the Daily Mirror newspaper.
    It quotes Sunday Times.*Looked for it online but can’t find it? I don’t buy the newspaper, I have an online subscription. Mirror online hasn’t the story either, so no link? *Maybe someone has a link?

    Researchers at the Emergency Medicine Journal identified
    one extra death for every 72 A&E patients who had to wait for between eight and 12 hours for a hospital bed.
    Using NHS average wait times that gives a figure of 5,800 deaths between November and February according to the Sunday Times report.

    • This topic was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by james19.
    • This topic was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by james19.
    #228697
    ALB
    Keymaster

    It looks like a reference to this article:

    https://emj.bmj.com/content/39/3/168

    “For every 82 admitted patients whose time to inpatient bed transfer is delayed beyond 6 to 8 hours from time of arrival at the ED, there is one extra death.”

    The figure of 5,800 seems to be a calculation made by the Sunday Times on the basis of this.

    #228698

    The study is applicable to the Intensive Care Unit, it also appears in the American Journal of Medicine

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3222064/

    #228709
    james19
    Participant

    Thanks for your links.

    Found the story online from The Sunday Times.

    Steve Black, a data scientist who co-wrote the study, said: “The situation is likely to be much worse than when we did our study and the mortality implications of that are going to be very, very bad. “I think 1,400 deaths a month, almost 6,000 between November and February, would be a conservative estimate. It could easily be much worse. I don’t think apocalyptic is an exaggeration to describe how bad the situation is.”

    https://epaper.thetimes.co.uk/the-sunday-times/20220410/page/2/textview

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by james19.
    #236518
    james19
    Participant

    This…

    #CapitalismKills

    One dogged coroner, four needless deaths and a stark conclusion: the NHS is broken
    An official has chronicled appalling ambulance delays, overflowing wards and deadly waits for treatment. And he says it’s just the tip of the iceberg

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/one-dogged-coroner-four-needless-deaths-and-a-stark-conclusion-the-nhs-is-broken-6zgz6tflk

    Unfortunately, TOL have a paywall.I didn’t want to make a new thread..

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by james19.
    #236537
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Universal free healthcare at risk in Scotland. Means-testing?

    A “two-tier” health service is mentioned in draft minutes of a meeting of NHS Scotland health board chief executives in September.

    Plus the possibility of curtailing some free prescriptions.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-63659754

    #236548
    james19
    Participant

    AJ
    Just seen that. It was it up for discussion?

    #239073
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Money trumps need once again

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/07/revealed-nhs-trusts-tell-patients-they-can-go-private-and-jump-hospital-queues

    “NHS trusts with record waiting lists are promoting “quick and easy” private healthcare services at their own hospitals, offering patients the chance to jump year-long queues”

    #239303
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Is this the future of the NHS?

    Several thousand health workers returned to the streets of Spain’s capital Sunday to protest what they claim is the dismantling of Madrid’s public health care system by its conservative regional government.

    “Stop Privatization,” the marchers clamored against staff shortages and criticized what they consider the favoritism shown by regional authorities toward private health care providers.

    The event was the latest in a series of protest actions, including strikes, by Madrid’s public health workers against the capital region’s government. The unions said Madrid spends the least amount per capita on primary health care of any Spanish region even though it has the highest per capita income. They claim that for every 2 euros spent on health care in Madrid, one ends up in the private sector.

    https://apnews.com/article/spain-government-madrid-public-health-7c461c056e6dc21f49405d44e692a98a

    #239306
    robbo203
    Participant

    “The event was the latest in a series of protest actions, including strikes, by Madrid’s public health workers against the capital region’s government. The unions said Madrid spends the least amount per capita on primary health care of any Spanish region even though it has the highest per capita income. They claim that for every 2 euros spent on health care in Madrid, one ends up in the private sector.”
    ————————————–

    Andalucía (where I live) is reputedly one of the poorest regions but also has one of the best healthcare systems in the country. It is currently under PP (conservative) control but is traditionally PSOE – like some of the “red wall” constituencies in England. I’ve had reason to use the public health care system system several times – both A&E and primary health care and it is good – far better than the rip-off private hospitals

    #239310
    Bijou Drains
    Participant

    I was talking to a mate and ex colleague who worked at a very high level within one of the local health trusts and his take was that the biggest problem that the NHS faces in terms of costs and staffing, is the huge cost and labour involved in managing the ludicrous “internal market” system.

    For example you have some of the Health Trusts setting themselves up in the vehicle hire business, buying ambulances and other related vehicles and hiring them to other health trusts making “profit” for their own health trust.

    Another example is the high number of highly paid data analysts who spend their time working out ways they can cross charge other health trust and Local Authorities for the services they have provided.

    As in effect the “profit” and the “savings” are made by one part of the public purse taking from another part of the public purse, with the “loss” coming from another part of the public purse.

    The whole set up is analogous to the whole capitalist market system, which the free marketeers claim is is highly efficient, whereas the reality is very different.

    #239344
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    Sajid Javid, former health secretary, said “extending the contributory principle” and patients should be charged for GP appointments and A&E visits.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/20/sajid-javid-calls-for-patients-to-pay-for-gp-and-ae-visits

    NHS should be replaced by means-tested fees, while “protecting those on low incomes”.

    Ireland’s “nominal” €75 (£66) fee for attending an injury unit without a referral, and £20 fees charged for GP appointments in Norway and Sweden as possible models.

    #239380
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    The Conservatives are “testing the water for a different kind of NHS”, Gordon Brown has said.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/23/gordon-brown-warns-tories-two-tier-healthcare-system-charges-undermine-nhs

    350,000 patients waited more than 12 hours to be admitted to hospital from A&E last year,

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/23/350000-patients-waited-over-12-hours-in-ae-before-getting-nhs-bed-last-year

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