How relevant is the Marxist theory in the twenty first century?
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LBird wrote:You haven't returned the courtesy, BD, and answered my question. Fair dos, eh?But, attempting to make an answer out of your post, if your list of areas which you will deny democracy really extend beyond infants and dementia sufferers (which you probably would be able to make a good political argument for, and would probably win a vote) to physics…… then you intend to deny democracy within a central part of the theory and practice of social production.If I've understood you properly, why not simply say to workers that this is what you intend, to leave political power within the hands of an elite within certain areas, and list those areas?I think that in these areas that you'd lose a vote, and the revolutionary, class conscious proletariat would make a start on making all science comprehensible to all proletarians.That is, education would be democratised. If you oppose democracy within education, then you should say so, openly, and explain why you hold these anti-democratic views.
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LBird wrote:You still haven't given a straight answer about which areas of social production you'd deny democracy, DB. This 'straightness' of yours seems to be a one-way street.You now seem to be saying that 'adults and non-dementia sufferers' would constitute an 'elite'.I think most workers would think that that category would consist of the vast majority of humans, but perhaps you could explain how you seem to see a 'majority' as an 'elite'?I'm beginning to think that you're not really interested in the issue of 'democracy within social production' (ie. World Socialism), and simply wish to retain at least some areas (perhaps physics, logic, mathematics, etc.) as the preserve of an educational elite.How about a straight answer to the question of which areas of social production that you'd deny democracy within?2nd warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
LBird wrote:Bijou Drains wrote:LBird wrote:You now seem to be saying that 'adults and non-dementia sufferers' would constitute an 'elite'.Dictionary definition of "Elite"" Noun 1. a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society"Seems to me that by selecting out infants and people with dementia, which apparently you agree with, you have selected out a group of people, creatign a select group that by definition is an elite. Not my words, but your.I am examining your propositions, your view of things, not giving mine.
[my bold]I'd read your chosen definition again, BD, you don't seem to understand it.'A select superior to the rest of society' is an elite, not a majority.You seem to be wanting to define a 'majority' as a 'dictatorship' – the politics behind that attempt is nothing to do with democratic socialism. Perhaps your own version of 'straightness' is beginning to show, after all.
3rd and final warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
A leopard never changes its spots
moderator1 wrote:Rather than issue indefinite suspensions to users to Bijour Drains and LBird I have blanked their posts 21-29 under Rules 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts. 12. Moderators may move, remove, or lock any threads or posts which they deem to be off-topic or in violation of the rules. Because posts and threads can be deleted without advance notice, it is your responsibility to make copies of threads and posts which are important to you.If such behavour continues I will not hesitate in unblanking these posts and issue indefinite suspensions.How many times have you suspended them on this forum? You have already done that several times, especially L Bird, and he continues doing the same thing over and over again which means that does not care, or he has not mental maturity, he is like a child playing with his favourite toysYou should pull out the plug permanently. This forum is the playground of few peoples who are not interested in real socialist discussion. Give them a lollipop and a permanent suspension. The best decision is to close down this forum permanently and use the ones that we have already, we are not attracting any sympathizers, on the contrary, if they come to his forum they will leave because there is nothing which will answer their questions
Marcos wrote:moderator1 wrote:Rather than issue indefinite suspensions to users to Bijour Drains and LBird I have blanked their posts 21-29 under Rules 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts. 12. Moderators may move, remove, or lock any threads or posts which they deem to be off-topic or in violation of the rules. Because posts and threads can be deleted without advance notice, it is your responsibility to make copies of threads and posts which are important to you.If such behavour continues I will not hesitate in unblanking these posts and issue indefinite suspensions.How many times have you suspended them on this forum? You have already done that several times, especially L Bird, and he continues doing the same thing over and over again which means that does not care, or he has not mental maturity, he is like a child playing with his favourite toysYou should pull out the plug permanently. This forum is the playground of few peoples who are not interested in real socialist discussion. Give them a lollipop and a permanent suspension. The best decision is to close down this forum permanently and use the ones that we have already, we are not attracting any sympathizers, on the contrary, if they come to his forum they will leave because there is nothing which will answer their questions
1st warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
moderator1 wrote:Marcos wrote:moderator1 wrote:Rather than issue indefinite suspensions to users to Bijour Drains and LBird I have blanked their posts 21-29 under Rules 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts. 12. Moderators may move, remove, or lock any threads or posts which they deem to be off-topic or in violation of the rules. Because posts and threads can be deleted without advance notice, it is your responsibility to make copies of threads and posts which are important to you.If such behavour continues I will not hesitate in unblanking these posts and issue indefinite suspensions.How many times have you suspended them on this forum? You have already done that several times, especially L Bird, and he continues doing the same thing over and over again which means that does not care, or he has not mental maturity, he is like a child playing with his favourite toysYou should pull out the plug permanently. This forum is the playground of few peoples who are not interested in real socialist discussion. Give them a lollipop and a permanent suspension. The best decision is to close down this forum permanently and use the ones that we have already, we are not attracting any sympathizers, on the contrary, if they come to his forum they will leave because there is nothing which will answer their questions
1st warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
I am not starting a new topic, I am just giving an opinion of your warnings to several peoples that are members of this forum.
Marcos wrote:moderator1 wrote:Marcos wrote:moderator1 wrote:Rather than issue indefinite suspensions to users to Bijour Drains and LBird I have blanked their posts 21-29 under Rules 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts. 12. Moderators may move, remove, or lock any threads or posts which they deem to be off-topic or in violation of the rules. Because posts and threads can be deleted without advance notice, it is your responsibility to make copies of threads and posts which are important to you.If such behavour continues I will not hesitate in unblanking these posts and issue indefinite suspensions.How many times have you suspended them on this forum? You have already done that several times, especially L Bird, and he continues doing the same thing over and over again which means that does not care, or he has not mental maturity, he is like a child playing with his favourite toysYou should pull out the plug permanently. This forum is the playground of few peoples who are not interested in real socialist discussion. Give them a lollipop and a permanent suspension. The best decision is to close down this forum permanently and use the ones that we have already, we are not attracting any sympathizers, on the contrary, if they come to his forum they will leave because there is nothing which will answer their questions
1st warning: 1. The general topic of each forum is given by the posted forum description. Do not start a thread in a forum unless it matches the given topic, and do not derail existing threads with off-topic posts.
I am not starting a new topic, I am just giving an opinion of your warnings to several peoples that are members of this forum.
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@ LBirdWould it be open for workers to democratically decide that 2 and 2 make 5 instead of 4 or 22?I would argue that they cannot in any consequential sense, because by saying that 2 and 2 make 5, you will produce results that don't cohere with physical reality and that will be obvious. Therefore although workers can decide that 2 and 2 make 5 and nobody can stop them and I accept that is [can be] material reality, the rocks will stop them. That's not to say that I think rocks can 'talk', but the rocks are there. – they do change, erode, etc., but they exist in a coherent form, you can't vote them out of existence. My question, then, is how elastic you think reality is?[Note: I'm not being facetious or disagreeing with the larger point you are making, which I think I understand – and I think you make your case very well – but I'm sceptical about it, or you might say, not fully convinced].
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