Conspiracy Theories and how big business-aka -your government won the propaganda war

April 2024 Forums General discussion Conspiracy Theories and how big business-aka -your government won the propaganda war

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 73 total)
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  • #109891
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    robbo-Why do you think the leaders of countries  and the worlds richest people meet yearly under intense protection . They are deciding how the  World shoud  be run -the IMF-Banksters-all the Worlds Leaders if  that isnt NWO I dont know what is ,its staring you in the face . Its now 2 % of the world  who are richer than over 1 BILLION  of the 98 % . THe UK/ US EU is OWNED by big business Camerons cabinet consists now of Millionaires . To pay the IMF-aka World Banksters its the POOR thats paying by reduced wefare benefit while the rich get tax CONCESSIONS -Cameron = these are the movers and shakers of this country therefore they must becvgiven all help from my government .Two years ago in a US TV program -up stepped a wee neo-con (laughing ) The EU is against US interests we will bring it down by demanding repayment (with enoromous  interest ) starting with GREECE  . WE will then take over the EU market once we bring them down so that in the long term we will own and run the EU market -achieving this as of now with the new US/EU Trade ""agreement " -once privatised then no going back -we demand this  -so NHS -fully privatised cant be brought back into public ownership. WE have ZERO control over ANY government you put in ,every time the public believe politicians lies  and vote them in they immediately  refuse to do what they say they will do -they LIE !  Obommer says Putin is an "agressor" -what country from 1950 onwards has invaded country after country stealing millions of their resources killing millions of civilians -the US but you refuse to blame them because they say =we uphold  """freedom """ and ""democracy "" -yes bringing the freedom to die from the US arms industry -keeps the shareholders happy . If you cant see that then its the blind leading the blind -WORDS mean NOTHING  its ACTIONS that count ! 

    #109892
    steve colborn
    Participant

    By the way Dunc, you sure you're not a Government Mole? Would you tell us if you were? OMG, I sound like an Orwellian conspiacy theorist : ( Enjoy yourself the next time you take on the "state machine" mate.

    #109893
    steve colborn
    Participant

    "Its now 2 % of the world  who are richer than over 1 BILLION  of the 98 % ."It was never even "1%", let alone 2%.It was always much less than that! A fraction of 1% would have been more accurate. But lately, we have had the Capitalist press telling "us", we are in fact better off than the financiers in the City of London, (now wheres that Ferrari catalogue) what utter crap! So is this where you've gotten this 2% garbage, from your class enemies the Capitalists and their lackey press?In fact, the richest 80/90 people in the world, own more accumulated wealth than the poorest 2/3 billion combined. Now theres a figure to make your eyes water, or your sphincter tighten in rage, and rightious indignation!!!

    #109894
    duncan lucas
    Participant

     Thank you Steve -sincerely . Socialist Punk  -When I  first came here I spoke the truth I wasnt against capitalism with a SMALL c but what we have got is rampart neo-Capitalism  where the poor get walked all over and before you condemn me for small c capitalism -name me a country in the World  that impilments ALL your philosophical  viewpoints on socialism or Marxism ??  When I wake up in the morning it is to absolute reality -no rose tinted glasses -completely  down to earth I see the harsh reality of the way the poor are  treated and it makes me VERY angry !!  I am a doer  but now in older age I am stuck bending over a PC and typing posts over the World . One site is now out for 2 days I post on -taken out by big business . I am constantly attacked by the GCHQ if you are like me head to UK website= http://www.priacyinternational and sign up like me to find out if the GCHQ/NSA have been tracking you as of yesterday over 10000 uk citizens have . They are breaching articles 8+10 of the European Convention on Human Rights up to DEcember 2014 -using PRISM /Upstream to watch you -is that also  a conspiracy theory -it was up till Snowdon blew those lies apart  Every day the NSA spy on 5 BILLION users of mobile/ internet /landline etc sorry to say BT is giving it help. I have a lot more info but  I might  cause your website to be attacked 

    #109895
    duncan lucas
    Participant

    Steve I am one of the few genuine straightforward people  in this World  I hate injustice it actually makes me feel ill There are no sides to me you take me as you found me or not at all . What life has done to me is give me absolute determination and a steely will power I am prepared to die for a cause money cant buy  me and the GCHQ know that.

    #109896
    steve colborn
    Participant

    I really hope GCHQ are tracking me. Part of my remit as a Socialist, is to get Socialist ideas across to my fellow workers! If these guys and gals are tracking and reading my emails and correspondence, listening into my phone calls, then it saves me from hunting them out, to spread Socialist ideas, to them. One could say, they are doing our job for us! Now theres irony for you, getting a "real" education" whilst doing their bit for Queen and cuntry!

    #109897
    steve colborn
    Participant

    Hi Duncan. You may be prepared to die for your cause, me, I'm more pragmatic. You see, I want to live in this new world. I've given enough to the fucker.As to the shite world we live in, making one ill! gotta agree. It makes my blood boil like a kettle in a volcanic caldera. As you say, I'm a take me as you see me, type of bloke. If someone doesn't like me, they know where they can fuck off to, as they've been told enough! I'm even considerate enough to provide a set of directions

    #109898
    moderator1
    Participant

    Reminder: 2. The forums proper are intended for public discussion. Personal messages between participants should be sent via private message or by e-mail.

    #109899
    steve colborn
    Participant

    It's not, by the way "my" government ' nor for that matter, is it yours. Moreover, it hasn't won the propaganda war, it's an ongoing thing. It will end, when Capitalism ends!!! As for "conspiracy theories", they can only exist when the majority, in other words "we" haven't a clue about the world "we" live in. This is a state of affairs (being clueless), that does not pertain to Socialist Party members, whether or not "you", or others haven't a "clue", is not for me to comment, or maybe, "it is"!!!

    #109900
    robbo203
    Participant
    duncan lucas wrote:
    robbo-Why do you think the leaders of countries  and the worlds richest people meet yearly under intense protection . They are deciding how the  World shoud  be run -the IMF-Banksters-all the Worlds Leaders if  that isnt NWO I dont know what is ,its staring you in the face . Its now 2 % of the world  who are richer than over 1 BILLION  of the 98 % . THe UK/ US EU is OWNED by big business Camerons cabinet consists now of Millionaires .

     Duncan, I don't doubt that (some) world leaders and (some of) the world's richest people meet yearly under "intense protection". I don't deny that there are "conspiracies" in the loose sense of the word, hidden agendas which the influential and the powerful wish to pursue.  What I do deny though, and emphatically , is that the general outline of society and the broad pattern of developments in society is the outcome of some kind of elite conspiracy.  This is plain nonsense. You may not realise this but what you are arguing for is an incredibly disempowering and anti-working class view of the world.  It is a version of history dubbed by  Carlyle as the "Great Man" model of history -. a top down elitist version of history in which "the masses" are portrayed as a dumb, malleable putty to be shaped moulded and directed as the high and mighty see fit. Might I recommend to you Plekhanov's famous 1898 essay "The Role of the Individual in History"  (https://www.marxists.org/archive/plekhanov/1898/xx/individual.html). Seriously, give it a read.  Plekhanov  brilliantly took  apart the Great Man theory of history, arguing that it was based on a fundamental flaw – an "optical illusion".  So called Great Men are the product of their times rather than their times being a product of them. If Napoleon had not existed then a Napoleon-like figure would have emerged in France in the early 19th century anyway. That is what the mood of the times required after the chaos and dislocation of the French  Revolution: some strong arm figure to restore social order. So it is the case today.  You overlook that these world leaders you refer to are put into power by the masses voting for them. Ultimately it is the masses who are the real shapers of history, the drivers of events.  Unfortunately for socialists at the present time the masses are pro-capitalist and pro-nationalist and are willing to write a blank cheque for the politicians to get on with the job of trying to manage capitalism.  But capitalism functions  according to its own set of generic rules or "laws". No one actually controls or is capable of controlling the system. You refer to the massive inequality that exists in the world today as if this was the planned outcome decided upon by a tiny group of immensely powerful conspirators. No it is not! The implication of what you saying is that if our leaders intended otherwise  we could  have a much more egalitarian form of capitalist society. It is merely a question of goodwill and the determination on the part of these leaders. The Left frequently resorts to this kind of  bogus explanation which seeks to portray the non realisation of certain political aims or policies as being the result of "betrayal" by the leadership. If only Trotsky had come to power and not Stalin things would have turned out so differently This is nonsense. Capitalism cannot function except on the basis of gross inequality. . Consider what happened in the case of Russia when the Bolsheviks took over the reigns of power and sought to manage capitalism along the lines of a statist model. Around the  time of the 1917 Revolution,  Lenin enthusiastically endorsed the principle of equal pay for everyone – what is called uravnilovka or income leveling. However, in less than a year later, in an address given in April 1918 (published as "The Soviets at Work") he abjectly recanted:   “We were forced now to make use of the old bourgeois method and agreed a very high remuneration for the services of the bourgeois specialists. All those who are acquainted with the facts understand this, but not all give sufficient thought to the significance of such a measure on the part of the proletarian state. It is clear that such a measure is a compromise, that it is a departure from the principles of the Paris Commune and of any proletarian rule." Stalin  too recognised the importance of unequal remuneration upon coming to power and having to fashion policy to fit the needs of the developing system of Soviet state capitalism.  But Stalin but went a lot further than Lenin in denouncing the "evil of equality" and declaring Marxism to be the  "enemy of equalisation". Uravnilovka, was vigorously opposed on the grounds that it undermined incentives and economic performance.  And most surreally  of all, Foreign Minister Molotov once declared that  "Bolshevik policy demands a resolute struggle against equalitarians as accomplices of the class enemy, as elements hostile to socialism." (Tony Cliff, State Capitalism in Russia, p.69 http://www.marxists.org/archive/cliff/works/1955/statecap/index.htm). In other words the Bolshevik were forced to do a complete about turn because the exigencies of running capitalism required this of them. Capitalism exists because we the masses, the  working class,  allow it to exist. We are the ultimate authors of our own fate – including the unpalatable  fact that we own so little and the !% so much 

    #109901
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Excellent talk and discussion yesterday afternoon in Clapham, London, at which the various meanings of "conspiracy" were dissected. From now on I'm going to follow the speaker's conclusion and talk about "cover-up theories" rather than "conspiracy theorists" since it is the cover-up aspects that those who go in for this thing emphasise. The point was also made that even if an alleged cover-up was uncovered that wouldn't affect capitalism and in fact that most cover-up theorists think that present system would be ok if there were no cover-ups, i.e. no bad guys in charge.The  talk and discussion were recorded and so should be available to a wider audience in due course.

    #109902
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/conspiracy-theorists-fooled-even-most-obvious-anti-science-trolling-study Social media allows this misinformation to be transmitted and amplified as users gather around shared beliefs, interests, and worldviews – whether or not factual evidence supports those belief systems.

    #109903
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    MH370…The Russians did it…no , i don't mean the shot down MH17 but the earlier missing Air Malaysia plane thay remains missinghttp://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/02/jeff-wise-mh370-theory.htmlWould have simply have guffawed until i read that the Daily Mail re-published the story as a credible theory. ,,,Throw all the mud you possible can in a propaganda war and some will surely stick

    #109904
    duncan lucas
    Participant

     If you believe UK/US government lies that is your privilege  but  millions dont agree with that view ,because facts counteract it. For a party that says it supports socialism you take  the neo-con government view  1+1=2 not 6 . FACT ! 1 since the  Korean War it is the US backed by the UK who has invaded -made war with -killed millions of civilians -tortured them -jailed them against human rights and international law proving the US is  the world terrorist . Because the dollar is worthless as are their bonds the US is trying to take over world  trade -with the help off the UK.  It has only Russia to conquer and it wins and can use Russia,s resources so Putin is  ""bad ""  a ""warmongerer "" etc -who in the last 20/30 years has killed the most people the US -who has started wars to bring hypocrically – ""freedom ""  ""democracy "" etc they cant even  do it in their own country where freedom of expression is removed -the Declaration of Independence subverted -THe CIA can spy on US citizens now -the NSA spys on everybody -EACH day they intercept 5  BILLION  world citizens comunications . THey torture with impunity -the US kills with impunity any world citizen it feels like . But you would rather say -and stamp your feet -I wont ! belive it -so there .Carry one in your  delusions  of reality  but you do realise you achieve no effect on the population of the UK as proved by the low numbers voting  for you  -ah but they are SH–te not my words but your own posters what a way to talk about UK citizens . So carry on as you are, the UK government loves you you are stifling  reality  and helping big business make sure (like the US) that the workers  in the UK have to work two or more jobs just to survive while you go on talking of the metaphysics   of Marxism you are helping big business make life hell for the UK poor . If somebody ridicules    me in a post and its ""okay " then why criticise me for answering back ! Democracy NOT here !

    #109905
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Here's the excellent 25 minute talk about what the speaker says we should better call "cover-up" throrires:http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/world-socialist-movement/audio-upload-what-conspiracy-theories-arent-telling-you

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