Karl Marx and the Rothschilds

October 2021 Forums General discussion Karl Marx and the Rothschilds

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 36 total)
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  • #188981
    ALB
    Keymaster

    According to the papers, Boris Johnson’s great-great-grandfather was Haci Ahmet Riza born in Central Turkey in 1813. This means that in all probability he will have 3rd cousins living in Turkey.  So what?  Just as irrelevant as Marx being the 3rd cousin of the founder of the UK Rothschild dynasty.

    #188984
    robbo203
    Participant

    According to the papers, Boris Johnson’s great-great-grandfather was Haci Ahmet Riza born in Central Turkey in 1813. This means that in all probability he will have 3rd cousins living in Turkey. So what? Just as irrelevant as Marx being the 3rd cousin of the founder of the UK Rothschild dynasty.

    It is not really the supposed genetic proximity of Marx to the Rothschilds that is of any particular  interest but rather the claim – quite widely repeated in several fake news sites  – that he was used by the latter for certain political ends.   Thus, the article linked to in the OP claims this:

     

    “Historians have confirmed that Karl Marx was not only related to the Rothschilds, but was also employed as their agent in order to subvert democracy and corrupt the Socialist movement.”

    #188987
    ALB
    Keymaster

    The first part of the claim is true (established by reputable research) — Marx is distantly related to the Rothschilds —  but of marginal interest and of no political significance. It has already been known that Marx was a first cousin of Frederick Philips who set up the Philips electrical (later electronics) firm. Good material for pub quizzes.

    The second part is fake history concocted by antisemites and not worth the paper it was first printed on. We haven’t the time to refute every example of fake history or every conspiracy theory, but don’t even need to in a case like this one.

     

     

    #188988
    robbo203
    Participant

    The second part is fake history concocted by antisemites and not worth the paper it was first printed on. We haven’t the time to refute every example of fake history or every conspiracy theory, but don’t even need to in a case like this one.

     

    Yes , that we dont need to refute such nonsense is true enough Adam  but you know what the internet is like – lies like this on can replicate themselves and soon the fact that they have been repeated so often  times means many individuals can come to believe them.  This would be to the detriment to our own attachment to Marxian ideas.  Other than  challenging the fake historians to provide tangible evidence I’m wondering if there is anything else we can do to stop the dissemination of these crackpot theories

     

    #188989
    robbo203
    Participant

    It seems that the anti-Semite Bakunin might have had a hand in promoting this particular myth

     

    Bakunin on Marx and Rothschild
    “Himself a Jew, Marx has around him, in London and France, but especially in Germany, a multitude of more or less clever, intriguing, mobile, speculating Jews, such as Jews are every where: commercial or banking agents, writers, politicians, correspondents for newspapers of all shades, with one foot in the bank, the other in the socialist movement, and with their behinds sitting on the German daily press — they have taken possession of all the newspapers — and you can imagine what kind of sickening literature they produce. Now, this entire Jewish world, which forms a single profiteering sect, a people of blooksuckers, a single gluttonnous parasite, closely and intimately united not only across national borders but across all differences of political opinion — this Jewish world today stands for the most part at the disposal of Marx and at the same time at the disposal of Rothschild. I am certain that Rothschild for his part greatly values the merits of Marx, and that Marx for his part feels instinctive attraction and great respect for Rothschild.
    This may seem strange. What can there be in common between Communism and the large banks? Oh! The Communism of Marx seeks enormous centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, which. speculates on the work of the people, will always find a way to prevail ….”
    Source: Michael Bakunin, 1871, Personliche Beziehungen zu Marx. In: Gesammelte Werke. Band 3. Berlin 1924. P. 204-216.

     

    #188991
    ALB
    Keymaster

    Makes you wonder what would have happened to the Jews if an “anarchist” insurrection led by his secret society had succeeded.

    #189071
    ZJW
    Participant

    BJ’s great-grandfather:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kemal .

     

    #189072
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Rudolf Rucker has also contributed to all these nonsense about Marx , the Rothschild and the Jews.  Several Anarchists groups have said that Rothschild paid Marx to write Das Capital. Ironically Marx’s capital is a total critique to capitalism, and Marx has been one of the theoreticians of true  Anarchism. The new figure in the world scenario is Soros because he is a rich jew, everything in this world is financed by Soros including the immigration from Central America

    #189298
    ZJW
    Participant

    Marquito: Give source/reference for what you say about Rocker, please.

    #189299
    Young Master Smeet
    Participant

    Well, this particularly disgraceful anti-semitic article by Marx suggests he wasn’t too keen on the Rothschilds

    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101074926989&view=1up&seq=625

    (You might need to scroll up a bit)

     

     

    #189300
    ZJW
    Participant

     

     

    It is not universally accepted that Marx was the author of that.

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Karl_Marx#%22The_Russian_Loan%22

    #189301
    Young Master Smeet
    Participant

    I think it’s a weak dispute, else we have to dispense with the whole volume of writings on the eastern Question and the stuff for the New York tribune.  We can say with confidence that Elenor Marx had no problem with including the article.

    #189302
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I think we discussed this “quote” once before here and that it wouldn’t have come from Marx  because it didn’t express his views published elsewhere. It would also be the only place where he would have expressed publicly something antisemitic. Which of course is why opponents of Marx want to keep alive doubt over whether or not he wrote it. Aveling and Eleanor Marx simply made a mistake in attributing to Marx that particular article in the New York Daily Tribune.

    Having said that, I wouldn’t mind abandoning the Eastern Question as it is full of Marx’s conspiracy theory that the Russian Tsars had been plotting for centuries to conquer the world. I think he even claims that the British Prime Minister Palmerston was a Russian agent. So, yes, Marx wasn’t perfect and we are not committed to or have to defend  everything he wrote but I don’t believe he wrote that “quote” about the Rothschilds.

    #189303
    Young Master Smeet
    Participant

    I dunno, it seems we have this:

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1853/02/25.htm

    However, good old Engels does come to the rescue:

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1890/04/19.htm

    Not least to say, though, that the circumstantial evidence from his writings is against Charlie being a Rothschild agent.  And, agreed, he never advocated a policy of anti-semitism per se in any of his public writings.

    #189304
    ALB
    Keymaster

    I wonder if Marx knew that in that article he was writing about his 3rd cousin. It doesn’t sound as if he was in the pocket of cousin Lionel as Bakunin and others have claimed.

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