ciro wrote:from you link and

December 2025 Forums General discussion Marx, socialism and Democracy ciro wrote:from you link and

#87065
ALB
Keymaster
ciro wrote:
from you link and text, I understand that Marx like us wanted direct democracy. But: what about our idea that we should take power with elections where this is possible, and the underlying idea that to establish socialism we need that a vast majority of people wants this? Are those idea also in Marx?

Yes, Marx did argue that under certain conditions (control of the government by an elected parliament) a socialist-minded working class would be able to gain control of political power peaceably via elections. As he said in a speech in The Hague in Holland in 1872:

Quote:
You know that the institutions, mores, and traditions of various countries must be taken into consideration, and we do not deny that there are countries — such as America, England, and if I were more familiar with your institutions, I would perhaps also add Holland — where the workers can attain their goal by peaceful means. This being the case, we must also recognize the fact that in most countries on the Continent the lever of our revolution must be force; it is force to which we must some day appeal in order to erect the rule of labour.

It is a measure of the extent of Leninist and insurrectionary ideas in Italy that it is not easy to find an Italian version of this on the internet, but this might work.At the end of  the more readily available Preface that Engels wrote to the English translation of Capital that came out in 1886 Engels confirmed this when he wrote that

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the voice ought to be heard of a man whose whole theory is the result of a lifelong study of the economic history and condition of England, and whom that study led to the conclusion that, at least in Europe, England is the only country where the inevitable social revolution might be effected entirely by peaceful and legal means. He certainly never forgot to add that he hardly expected the English ruling classes to submit, without a “pro-slavery rebellion,” to this peaceful and legal revolution

This is more easily available in Italian and can be found here.Having said this, our position does not rest on what Marx said (we don’t slavishly accept him as an infallible authority) but on our own analysis of the facts which in our view confirm Marx’s point of view.Lenin argued that since 1872 conditions in England and America had become more like what they were in Europe in 1872 (where Marx saw insurrection as the only way) and so a peaceful winning of political power had become impossible in England and America too. We argue that, on the contrary, today conditions in Europe and many other parts of the world have become more like conditions in England and America in 1872 and so a peaceful revolution is possible in them too.