After Syriza, Podemos
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I have been debating with one or two local Lefties here in Spain on the "Podemos phenomenon". It is indeed quite remarkable that having been founded just last year, the Podemos political party now tops the national polls ahead of PSOE in second place and the ruling PP in third place.
To get the background to what is happening, here is an interesting two part article by John Carlin writing in El Pais. Its worth reading to get a flavour of what Podemos stands for:
http://elpais.com/elpais/2015/02/02/inenglish/1422900233_612344.html
In one sense the whole Podemos phenomenon has been encouraging. Spanish workers in their hundreds of thousands, even millions , are no longer prepared to put up with unending crap dished out by the corrupt and ideologically bankrupt Spanish political establishment. They are beginning to question things (or at least some things). Yet reading through Carlin's article you get the unmistakable feeling that this is all going to end in tears. The warning signs are all there, flashing for all to see. Should Podemos win the next election, which is still a year away, the expectations of millions of Spanish workers will be hugely raised only to be dashed as Podemos switches from opposition to governing mode and its opportunist chickens come home to roost. Long term, this could set the scene for a quite vigorous reactionary resurgence and backlash – although it is at least conceivable that the timing of Podemos's rise, coinciding with a signs of slight pick up in the Spanish economy, might be fortunate and might help to mask the fact that they are at the mercy of the system itself . The politicians don't control the system; it is the system that controls the politicians
Still, it will be interesting to see what happens. If Podemos does win the next election it will probably carry even greater significance than Syriza's recent victory in Greece in changing the political landscape of Europe
Podemos show popularity in local electionshttp://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Left-Candidate-Wins-in-Barcelona-as-Main-Parties-Lose-Support-20150524-0020.html
The same dog wearing different collar
i actually wish them good luck with their ideals even if i agree with you that they will eventually be sadly disappointed…socialism cannot exist in one country much less one city …
Quote:Vull ser alcaldessa de Barcelona i governar obeint la gent, com sempre hauria d'haver estat– “govern by obeying”But i think their hopes, dreams and aspirations adds towards a necessary change in peoples views and opinions…it is a matter of learning the lesson of failure and going further beyond the next time around. http://www.telesurtv.net/english/opinion/Barcelona-Election-Puts-Social-Movements-in-control-of-the-city-20150526-0053.htmlThe article quote Murray Bookchin's municipalism..
Quote:“Unless we actually run candidates in city council elections, we are not dealing with power. And to live in fear that power might “corrupt” not only ignores the many cases where it did not corrupt; it ignores the need to gain power. Theater, street events, and other photogenic escapades merely play at politics rather than engage in it.”Sounds as if Bookchin's article (which can be found here) has some relevance to the other thread on the need to win control of political power. The case for this is unanswerable and it's good to see a former anarchist renouncing anarchism and coming round to realising this.
ALB wrote:Sounds as if Bookchin's article (which can be found here) has some relevance to the other thread on the need to win control of political power. The case for this is unanswerable and it's good to see a former anarchist renouncing anarchism and coming round to realising this.His comments too about co-operatives are highly perceptive and relevant seeing how we're told by some that they are one of the paths we should be taking in order to convince workers of how socialism might work in practice:
Quote:Some libertarian municipalists have argued that before we seek political power for our democratic ends, we must first “work over” a community by participating in communitarian activities and establishing cooperatives that will cement mutualistic ways of living throughout the community. Only then, we are told, will a community be “ready” for a libertarian municipalist effort. But do cooperatives really have mutualistic effects on their communities?Not necessarily—indeed, all too often, for those involved, forming and maintaining a cooperative becomes an end in itself. When cooperatives do manage to survive, their relations with other cooperatives become strained—far from treating each other mutualistically, they turn their faces against each other and even enter into mutual competition. Moreover, a cooperative’s members often become an in-group in the very community they had initially set out to educate—and they abdicate all educational activities, having come to view the people in their community solely as mere customers. Forced by capitalism to adopt methods of capitalist organization, they hire managers and business consultants of one kind or another—presumably in pursuit of efficiency—with the result that, far from giving their community a political education, they deceive it in their own interests, dressing up their capitalist enterprise with the “virtuous” name cooperative instead of openly calling themselves a company or corporation.Quote:some relevance to the other thread on the need to win control of political power.All practical politics has a relevance to that thread.Bookchin's contribution has, if not directly but indirecty, been raised. I mentioned the Town Hall-style democracy he advocates. And the importance of "dual power" has been discussed, if the actual term has not been used…the where when and how of workers councils etc.. On co-ops Gnome , i agree with you. Their inherent weaknesses are being ignored by those folk who think themselves "progressives" and hopefully you can ask at the forthcoming talk Andrew Kliman for his criticisms of Richard Wolff's Worker Self Directed Enterprises and Gar Alperovitz's pluralist commonwealth that radica reformists have gleefully embraced.
Chatting to a Spanish colleague at work, she is very excited by the rise of Podemos and the municipal parties. She also said that Podemos expected to form a coalition with the psoe. Which she saw as a good thing. I was surprised at this, as I thought a part of Podemos essential appeal was its rejection of the old style corrupt party machine politics. Not jumping straight into bed with the worst of social democrat fat cats.
Darren redstar wrote:Chatting to a Spanish colleague at work, she is very excited by the rise of Podemos and the municipal parties. She also said that Podemos expected to form a coalition with the psoe. Which she saw as a good thing. I was surprised at this, as I thought a part of Podemos essential appeal was its rejection of the old style corrupt party machine politics. Not jumping straight into bed with the worst of social democrat fat cats.Old habit is not usual
What happened to the case of being the opposition while capitalism persists, the case made by the Left Mensheviks and Martov rather than the putsch ad aquisition of politcal power that Lenin accomplished.
“We want to occupy city hall and open it up to the people” – Ada Colau . Her salary as mayor will be slashed from €140,000 to around €35,000 a year, privileges such as official cars will be a thing of the pastThe election of a radical mayor to Barcelona has the establishment rattled.http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/13/ada-colau-barcelona-spain-mayor-targets-tourists
Quote:“I don’t think the ideas of a city can be based on what a citizen’s assembly wants – it’s absurd,” said Francesc de Carreras, a constitutional law professor at the Autonomous University of Barcelona. “Democracy doesn’t mean that everyone expresses their desires and they come true by some miracle. It’s not a good idea to have citizens participate in these things. We’re not the ones who have skills in these areas,” he said. “I don’t go into a restaurant and tell them how to cook.”I don't know whether the new radical mayor of Barcelona really is proposing that all decisions are made by "citizens's assemblies", though I very much doubt it. Even so, the professor of constitutional law has a point: it wouldn't work. Such direct democracy has its (severe) limits. Anyway, it's not what we propose in socialism, where some decisions can be taken by assemblies, some by referendum, some by answerable and recallable delegates and some left to "experts". I agree that even in socialism "I don't go into a restaurant and tell them how to cook". Nor, when I turn on the tap at home, am I interested in deliberating how the water got there. I'll be satisfied that it does. As has been pointed out here before, in socialism we're not going to spend all day deliberating and voting on everything.
Maybe you should insist upon visiting the restaurant's kitchens and inspecting the fridges and food larders to avoid those occasional funny tummies the morning after, ALB But, yes i do defer to the authority of others when their expertise is recognised, as i do also in the case that my water supply is treated and not contaminated. But we should also make a difference been appointed experts who do not get chosen and have no control over and delegated experts who are selected through some form of choice and we have the power to dismiss by some process.I think this professor is guilty of mis-direction…people don't want the power of crossing every t and dotting every i on every bit of city legislation but they do seek veto-powers other than merely at election-time. Some seek to sit in onTown Hall decision making. How that is implemented is no easy task but it is a principle that should be upheld and the means sought out to have it democratically practiced. Democracy is more than having a say, its about having power enacting that say…i'm sure one of our articles says that somewhere.
ALB wrote:As has been pointed out here before, in socialism we're not going to spend all day deliberating and voting on everything.Better not tell that to LBird…
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