Forum Replies Created
Your probably better of putting your questions about the videos to their maker Brendan Cooney at Kapitalism101.wordpress.com.However, that sentence doesn’t seem quite right. You’re right the goal of the worker is to get money to buy the things they need. However as far as the capitalist is concerned if private labour doesn’t become social labour then nothing of value has been produced and the money invested in production will be lost.The Marxian LTV does not imply that workers should ‘be the owners of ‘their’ social product at all. All it suggests is that the only thing that can expand the total amount of value in the economy is the surplus labour of the wage worker. Some socialists make a fuss about the fact that the worker does not receive the total value of their product, I do not think that this is a problem in itself – under a system of socialised production the worker would not receive the whole of their product either. The problem with capitalism is that is the law of value, the profit motive, and not human need that determines where and in what way resources and human labour power is used up.Not all wage workers produce value. Marx made the distinction between productive and unproductive labour. Most service sector jobs can be classified as ‘unproductive labour’ this is not to mean they are valuable to society but do not produce any new ‘value’ in the sense of the Marxian LTV.
RT, it’s on freeview channel 90 something..
What I’d like to see is some usage statistics for the WSM forum, are these obtainable? Since the list is over 10 years old I think a lot of the subscribers will in fact be defunct email addresses, they certainly aren’t saying much. I have the feeling we are worry about conversations that are taking place in an empty room… With regards to the suggestions above #1 We already have this (though it’s only for members) it’s called SPOPEN.
Gripes about the finer points of economic theory and his over optimism on the possibilities of artificial intellegence aside, he speaks a lot more sense then most.It’s really encouraging to think that stuff like this is being broadcast on a channel which can be viewed in most homes across the UK.
Doesn’t seem like this story was well know in English (at least I can’t find any references to it) until FDTD picked it up. It was originally titled “Rule by Tricks” is from Yu-li-zi by Liu Ji (1311-1375) and is worth reproducing below:Liu Ji wrote:In the feudal state of Chu an old man survived by keeping monkeys in his service. The people of Chu called him “ju gong” (monkey master).Each morning, the old man would assemble the monkeys in his courtyard, and order the eldest one to lead the others to the mountains to gather fruits from bushes and trees. It was the rule that each monkey had to give one tenth of his collection to the old man. Those who failed to do so would be ruthlessly flogged. All the monkeys suffered bitterly, but dared not complain.One day, a small monkey asked the other monkeys: “Did the old man plant all the fruit trees and bushes?” The others said: “No, they grew naturally.” The small monkey further asked: “Can’t we take the fruits without the old man’s permission?” The others replied: “Yes, we all can.” The small monkey continued: “Then, why should we depend on the old man; why must we all serve him?”Before the small monkey was able to finish his statement, all the monkeys suddenly became enlightened and awakened.On the same night, watching that the old man had fallen asleep, the monkeys tore down all the barricades of the stockade in which they were confined, and destroyed the stockade entirely. They also took the fruits the old man had in storage, brought all with them to the woods, and never returned. The old man finally died of starvation.Yu-li-zi says, “Some men in the world rule their people by tricks and not by righteous principles. Aren’t they just like the monkey master? They are not aware of their muddleheadedness. As soon as their people become enlightened, their tricks no longer work.”December 28, 2011 at 9:05 pm in reply to: [video] Elf confronts Santa about his exploitation … #87237
Ha ha, liked it!
Given this a quick look, but not a proper read. Looks like it might be useful. Thanks for sharing.
Seems to me the WSM forum is a dead donkey. There’s been more conversaion ABOUT the forum than actual discussion on it. No-one really uses yahoo-groups these days and I wouldn’t be that suprised if yahoo pulls the plug soon.I’ve been having better disussions on various facebook groups these days. If this online forum will catch on time will tell, I may make some changes so users can comment on articles without registering, but as far as the WSM yahoo group is concerned I think we should let it die a death, if it hasn’t died already.
Hello Nod,So, over 30 years you have managed to amass a comfortable pile of crumbs. You’ve put yourself to use, the only use that people are able to put themselves in the present social system, and helped increase the size of the cake that is societies capital. But by spending too much time staring at your pile of crumbs you’ve failed to noticed that the cake mix is rotten, that the fumes from the bakery pollute the environment we live in and that the bakery owner grows fat from your efforts.That a life of wage slavery should have such an effect on someone is understandable, even well paid wage workers are always in a precarious position, whether or not they are aware of it. Most slaves, even well fed ones, secretly dreamed of being slave-masters. We seek the end of the system wage slavery.You should really know better.
3 comrades from Norwich managed to hand out around 450 leaflets at the event in the city which was a well attended affair with around 2000 attending.November 17, 2011 at 4:24 pm in reply to: Review of The Political Economy of Development (November Socialist Standard) #87113
Haven’t read this one but his guide to ‘Capital’ is probably the best around. ‘From Political Economy to Economics’ is pretty good as well, at least the bits I read where.He didn’t seem to be a Keynesian.
..Another high point was when I found myself in a minority of one for not agreeing that Money = Debt.Perhaps next time I’ll do a presentation on Leibniz Law of Identity!
Went down to the Occupy Norwich camp last night for their ‘monetary reform’ working group.There was a fair amount of amicable discussion, though with the majority in favour of some kind of ‘monetary reform’ (perhaps not surprising as this was the subject for the meeting)I made some comments, well quite a few, and ones about the fractional reserve being a red herring and how commercial banks going bust disproves that they can make money out of fresh air, got funny hand signals which are a kind of silent applause.Unfortunately the idea of a Norwich pound seemed quite popular.There where also two local people present who today I have found out have written a book critiquing banking from a Muslim perspective.I intend to go down again. This is definitely something worth persisting with and a good forum for discussion. How often do groups of people gather outdoors to discuss the nature of the society we live in?
If anyone’s interested Positive Money’s proposals can be read here
Should be meeting some people who are impressed with these ideas tonight. I feel a standard article is in the pipeline