John Lennon

Mon, 13/08/2012 - 1:43pm

#32

TheOldGreyWhistle

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I know we frown on the idea but I think only someone as well known as John could get our message across on such a massive scale. I hope people listened to the words. 'I hope some day you will join us...' , 'The emancipation of the working class must be the ........'

The world and its resources should not be owned and controlled by a tiny minority; they are the common heritage of all humankind

Mon, 13/08/2012 - 2:02pm

#33

Ozymandias

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Joined: 31/10/2011

Some might say that the inclusion of "Imagine" at the end of the ceremonies is just an example of the "Illuminati" co-opting another working class rallying call...like what happened a few months ago with the image of Karl Marx on a credit card! I watched the whole ceremony (ritual?) last night and I could see signs of occult imagery and symbolism. It was fuckin obvious. I was trying to kid myself on that it was all just co-incidental but I am beginning to think some of this shit is REAL...

Mon, 13/08/2012 - 5:36pm

#34

mcolome1

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http://www.worldsocialism.org/articles/imagine_by_john_lennon.php This is what the party wrote about John Lennon and his song Imagine, and also IMAGINE is the name of the journal of the Socialist Party of Canada (WSM )

I don't think John Lennon, or any of the members of the group of the Beatles were socialists, not even Vladimir Lenin can be considered a socialist, and he used more Marxist phraseologies than Lennon, and I do not think that he was ready to support a society without money when he was also a money making machine, he was not a Frederic Engels, or a William Morris .

He wrote many songs with certain social content, but he had a romantic view about this society, he wants to make changes, but within the frame of the capitalist society like many others reformists have tried and continue trying in our days, his songs covered the same aspect of our society as the Cuban Trova which denounced imperialism, wars and hungers but also had a romantic view about the capitalist society, and think that capitalism can be reformed, and that changes might come through a leader, or a philanthropic personality.

He was against the Vietnam war and against the horrors of wars but he was never against the real causes of wars like many anti-war groups who have disappeared from the face of the earth, and many of them were wrapping themselves in flags and singing patriotic songs and hymns. Several of those groups they played the anti-yankees card played by Mussolini, Hitler and the Japanese empire, as well the Soviet and the Chinese played the same card in certain historical moments. The problem in that historical epoch was not John F Kennedy, or Richard Nixon, it was the struggle among several world powers fighting for the same purposes.

I don't think he was killed because he was against the Vietnam war as some conspirators have been propagating, there were others groups which were more involved than him against the Vietnam war and they were not killed because of that, some of them were killed because they were Castroists or Maoist groups and they supported Debrayism and the guerrilla coup d'etat conception. They were against US imperialism but they supported Chinese and Soviet imperialism.

John Lennon did support and financed several nationalists and terrorist groups including the IRA, but he also supported some Islamic nationalist movement. His religious point of view blocked him from understanding the real social problems of our society and that influence also blocked him in order to move forward in the same manner that nationalist Islam stopped Malcolm X in order to move to higher ground.

Mon, 13/08/2012 - 6:49pm

#35

TheOldGreyWhistle

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Whoever was responsible for writing the above is ignorant. It is based on the silly assumption that only SPGB members are socialist. Here is a question: Was Harry Young a socialist?

The world and its resources should not be owned and controlled by a tiny minority; they are the common heritage of all humankind

Mon, 13/08/2012 - 9:27pm

#36

gnome

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Joined: 14/10/2011

TheOldGreyWhistle wrote:

Here is a question: Was Harry Young a socialist?

Depends whether the question is being asked before or after 1988...................

Mon, 13/08/2012 - 10:53pm

#37

mcolome1

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The party does not care too much about your past, or your personal life ( the vanguard parties do care about that ) the main concern of the party on the membership application is to be sure that you understand what socialism is, and what is the difference between capitalism and socialism, and to understand that our immediate and future program is socialism, we do support reforms that might benefits the workers, but our main objective is not reformism.

Che Guevara defined socialism in the same manner that can be described by a priest, or a philanthropic group, and the Bolsheviks and the Maoists they twisted it completely. I heard a speech given by Fidel Castro at the University of Havana presenting his view and definition on socialism, and Marxism, and my conclusion was that Gorbachev could have done a much better job. I do not think anyone of them can be called revolutionary socialists, even that they have an enormous popular support.

Most of the party members come from a different background and we might accept the application of a person that is in jail if that person is willing to join the party and he or she answers the questions properly. Karl Marx was a liberal bourgeois and he became a socialist later one.

John Lennon musical compositions might be revolutionaries because their lyrics were different to others, but they can not be used in order to make any basic changes in our society, the same thing was Lenin, he was a revolutionary nationalist , but he was not a revolutionary socialist, and his works will not make any changes in our capitalist mode of production, on the contrary, it is not a good example for the working class.

To be a left winger is not a guarantee that a person is a socialist, and most of the left wingers groups have spent their whole life supporting reforms, and any uprising, any social discontent they call it revolution, they were left wingers Leninist groups supporting Saddam Hussein because he was an anti-imperialist and a revolutionary nationalist.

Tue, 14/08/2012 - 2:40am

#38

mcolome1

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Well, I have shopped around and I have not found any other group able to provide a real definition of socialism more accurate than the World Socialist Movement which is composed of several companion parties, and I know and I have known many groups, and many of them have a much larger membership than the WSM.

We can do like the attorneys do using the Socratic method, we can take all the elements that compose the definition of socialism and apply them to the socialist party case, and we can win the case, and we can look in the disperse works of Marx and Engels on their general definition of socialism and we can find a big similarity. When you find anything better let me know

There are hundred of groups and personalities who have declared themselves of being socialists but they do not pass the test and most of them end on supporting one form or another of state capitalism or reformist trend

Talking about artist who declared themselves as socialist, we have the case of the Puerto Rican-American Ricky Martin who have declared in public that he is a socialist and that he supports Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez can he pass the test ? Can he be accepted as a member of the socialist party ?

I do not think we can admit peoples with political ambiguities, at the end they will leave the party, in the same manner that peoples with religious believes will also leave the party, or accepting peoples that support state capitalism. I have seen many burnt out in this process

Tue, 14/08/2012 - 4:30am

#39

mcolome1

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The Republican and Democratic Parties they have millions of members and millions of workers vote for their candidate. The CPUSA which is a Moist vanguard party has more members than the socialist party, and the CPUSA has more members and more resources

Tue, 14/08/2012 - 9:28am

#40

TheOldGreyWhistle

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John Lennon was no Karl Marx! He certainly wasn't! He gave a clear vision Communism, whereas Marx advocated a bunch of reforms in the communist manifesto and admired and mixed with reformists, anarchists and idealists. Where Marx supported nationalist wars under certain circumstances, Lennon advocated peace and opposed all wars. In imagine he advocates the abolition of the cause of war

Why concentrate on the negatives of Lennon while ignoring the negatives of Marx.

Lennon makes money!! Well good for him. The class struggle is not a moral issue. It is based on selfishnes. Otherwise it is pure idealism. What should he have done gave his money to a christian charity?

Would you allow him in the SPGB. If not, we cannot be a 'Marxist party?

The world and its resources should not be owned and controlled by a tiny minority; they are the common heritage of all humankind

Tue, 14/08/2012 - 9:33am

#41

TheOldGreyWhistle

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gnome wrote:

TheOldGreyWhistle wrote:

Here is a question: Was Harry Young a socialist?

Depends whether the question is being asked before or after 1988...................

Judean People's Front!

The world and its resources should not be owned and controlled by a tiny minority; they are the common heritage of all humankind

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