Gun Culture and the Left

March 2024 Forums General discussion Gun Culture and the Left

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  • #85581
    robbo203
    Participant

     

     

     

    I have noticed recently a disturbing trend on some of the lefty forums I frequent – posts enthusiastically promoting much the same the kind of arguments you might expect to find in a reactionary Right wing-outfit like the National Rifle Association (NRA).  On one such FB site contributors were invited to voyeuristically share information about guns in their possession and from exchanges with some people on that site it was clear that they took the view that socialism could only ever be achieved by an armed uprising.  To oppose such an idea was casually dismissed as a case of liberal squeamishness.  

     

    On another site, historical precedent was cited as reason enough for this leftist veneration of guns.  See this post for example with the caption" Guns are fine — racism is not’: Armed redneck lefties are waging a different kind of war on Fascism" (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/guns-are-fine-racism-is-not-armed-redneck-lefties-are-waging-a-different-kind-of-war-on-fascism/).  The so called “Battle of Blair Mountain” in 1921 rsulted in over sixty workers losing their lives , almost 1,000 miners being arrested and, subsequently a precipitous decline in union membership but who cares about the costs involved when there is the romance to be savoured of taking on the state in a headlong exchange of bullets

     

    I dont know if this is a peculiarly American phenomenon – this leftist fantasising over guns – but opposing it as I do has got sod all to do with holding certain Liberal  scruples.   ("Liberal" like the word "fascism" has become little more than a swear word to be presented in lieu of any kind of plausible argument).  I oppose glorifying gun culture because I do not believe the ends and the means can ever really be separated and I do not want to live in a society in which the gun has the final word and where "might is right".  A leftist worshipping of gun culture will only reproduce the latent and manifest authoritarianism of the reactionary Right itself but then that streak of authoritarianism has always been there in the case of the Left in the guise of the Leninist vanguardist theory.  It is anathema to a Marxist position that the emancipation of the working class can only be carried by the working class itself and not from above

     

    That apart, the whole idea is pointlessly provocative and doomed to backfire.  What we will end up with is one bunch of thugs shooting up another in a mindless game of tit-for-tat  with nothing much of substance to distinguish them apart from their respective left and right wing sounding labels.  Quite likely some of these will degenerate even further into mafia – type business outfits intent upon enriching themselves at the expense of those they prey upon and extort.  It is not as if this hasn’t happened before – the transition from fiery radical to self-aggrandising sleazeball cynically using one's political connections simply as a means of accumulating wealth

     

    As  for the modern state – certainly in any of the advanced economies of global capitalism –   there is absolutely zero chance of this ever being overthrown by a bunch of would be Left wing generals plotting military coups from the comfort of their parents back garden shed.

     

    I despair when I read stuff like this.  Has the Left learnt nothing from the past?  Is it forever doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past when nothing was really achieved except to reinforce the very system that finally co-opted them into the ranks of the apathetic and the compliant when it did not consign them to some anonymous grave?

     

    #128745
    Bijou Drains
    Participant
    robbo203 wrote:
       I have noticed recently a disturbing trend on some of the lefty forums I frequent – posts enthusiastically promoting much the same the kind of arguments you might expect to find in a reactionary Right wing-outfit like the National Rifle Association (NRA).  On one such FB site contributors were invited to voyeuristically share information about guns in their possession and from exchanges with some people on that site it was clear that they took the view that socialism could only ever be achieved by an armed uprising.  To oppose such an idea was casually dismissed as a case of liberal squeamishness.   On another site, historical precedent was cited as reason enough for this leftist veneration of guns.  See this post for example with the caption" Guns are fine — racism is not’: Armed redneck lefties are waging a different kind of war on Fascism" (http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/guns-are-fine-racism-is-not-armed-redneck-lefties-are-waging-a-different-kind-of-war-on-fascism/).  The so called “Battle of Blair Mountain” in 1921 rsulted in over sixty workers losing their lives , almost 1,000 miners being arrested and, subsequently a precipitous decline in union membership but who cares about the costs involved when there is the romance to be savoured of taking on the state in a headlong exchange of bullets I dont know if this is a peculiarly American phenomenon – this leftist fantasising over guns – but opposing it as I do has got sod all to do with holding certain Liberal  scruples.   ("Liberal" like the word "fascism" has become little more than a swear word to be presented in lieu of any kind of plausible argument).  I oppose glorifying gun culture because I do not believe the ends and the means can ever really be separated and I do not want to live in a society in which the gun has the final word and where "might is right".  A leftist worshipping of gun culture will only reproduce the latent and manifest authoritarianism of the reactionary Right itself but then that streak of authoritarianism has always been there in the case of the Left in the guise of the Leninist vanguardist theory.  It is anathema to a Marxist position that the emancipation of the working class can only be carried by the working class itself and not from above That apart, the whole idea is pointlessly provocative and doomed to backfire.  What we will end up with is one bunch of thugs shooting up another in a mindless game of tit-for-tat  with nothing much of substance to distinguish them apart from their respective left and right wing sounding labels.  Quite likely some of these will degenerate even further into mafia – type business outfits intent upon enriching themselves at the expense of those they prey upon and extort.  It is not as if this hasn’t happened before – the transition from fiery radical to self-aggrandising sleazeball cynically using one's political connections simply as a means of accumulating wealth As  for the modern state – certainly in any of the advanced economies of global capitalism –   there is absolutely zero chance of this ever being overthrown by a bunch of would be Left wing generals plotting military coups from the comfort of their parents back garden shed. I despair when I read stuff like this.  Has the Left learnt nothing from the past?  Is it forever doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past when nothing was really achieved except to reinforce the very system that finally co-opted them into the ranks of the apathetic and the compliant when it did not consign them to some anonymous grave? 

    It's an old quote, and I can't remember which party member said it but it runs along the lines of "a gun is a metal tube with a member of the working class at end"

    #128746
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    My experience of these leftist FB sites has been very similar.  I was recently banned from one "Marxist" site for referring to the 'tankies' and Leninists frequenting the site as "goose-stepping, leader-worshipping, suicidal fantasists".  Can't imagine why anybody would find that objectionable.

    #128744
    robbo203
    Participant

    Here's one interesting response from the above site.  So could the NRA being playing left off against the right to  boost small arms sales?:     "I'm pretty shallow and generally just post my gut reaction to the various articles RS posts. I have been wrestling with my feelings regarding this story since yesterday morning.I agree with all of the politics of the Redneck Revolt. I side with the working class, I abhor white supremacists, I hope for an end to racism. Woody Guthrie was my earliest hero. I've visited Ludlow, Colorado and cried for the striking miners and their wives and children, etc, etc. So the article got me all excited… these guys are speaking my language.I have always been a pacifist and believe in strong gun control. I'm tired of living in a country where the populace is so easily gunned down. I don't believe in open carry. I want to live in a civilized nation where the populace doesn't go to the grocery store armed to their teeth. So I wrestled with the Redneck Revolt and their desire/need to arm every member of the left. I went to their site and saw that some of their fund raising is dedicated to purchasing arms.FWIW here is where my wrestling with the issues of working class heros and guns took me:We all know that the NRA's main purpose is to sell arms for the arms manufacturers. These last 8 years the NRA has used the trope "Obama is gonna come and take your guns" to drive up the sale of guns. And it worked. There are now more than 300 million guns in the hands of civilians in the US. That's one for every man, woman and child.But the Obama threat is gone so what is the NRA going to do to keep the gun manufacturers churning out weapons and reaping profits? I think I know.I've seen the recent NRA ad which tells the right that the left is armed and dangerous. And now I've seen the Redneck Revolt, which has grown by leaps and bounds in the past 6 months, saying the left needs to become armed and dangerous. And I smell a big, fat capitalist rat:The NRA is pushing a narrative to get the Right AND the Left to purchase their product.And all this talk of being armed to withstand capitalism and tyrannical government? I've seen it before and, no matter how well armed, the little guy ALWAYS loses because the guys with the money and the power ALWAYS have bigger and better weapons. They lost at Blair Mountain when the government started bombing them. They lost at the Bonus March when the government rode in on horses and destroyed their encampment. They lost at the Tulsa Race Massacre when incendiary bombs were dropped from crop planes. They lost at Occupy Wall Street. The only thing that being armed guarantees is more injuries and deaths at home and in our communities during the regular course of day to day activities. And being armed also guarantees more and swifter and deadlier punishment when we dare to question the status quo.Until we are 100% automated the working class has the means to gain control. All they have to do is unite. And they don't need guns to unite."

    #128747
    alanjjohnstone
    Keymaster

    An article related to this thread – Redneck Revolthttp://www.alternet.org/activism/redneck-revolt-armed-leftwing-group-wants-stamp-out-fascism

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