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How to proceed?

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steve colborn
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Joined: 26/06/2011

"Actually, in the Communist Manifesto Marx acknowledged that at the time a bourgeois revolution would have to proceed any communist (or socialist) revolution." Proceed? surely thats precede! : )

mcolome1
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Joined: 04/11/2011

It is very important to read and discuss all the prefaces because Marx and Engels used to make changes and  clarification adding a preface to their books

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

mcolome1
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Joined: 04/11/2011

ALB wrote:

I see what you mean. The 3 or 4 paragraphs before section 1. I suppose we could discuss whether or not it was so in 1848 that communism was a sepectre haunting Europe. I suspect not but that the spectre was rather political democracy (ie universal male suffrage electing a law-making body that controlled the executive in place of the various authoritarian dynastic regimes). There, I've jumped the gun and already started discussing when I shouldn't have done.

 

In 1848 communism was not a spectre  haunting Europe, it was capitalism. I think that the Communist Manifesto should has not been called a comunist manifesto either

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Père Duchêne
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Joined: 28/11/2013

'A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of Communism' is sheer hyperbole for early 1848,

the working class as a political class is in its infancy in early 1848: 'the formation of a class with radical chains' has really just occurred

we had the Chartists in England who demanded: A vote for every man twenty-one years of age, the Secret Ballot, no Property Qualification for MPs, payment of MPs, equal Constituencies, annual Parliament Elections. This could best be described radical bourgeois politics in the vein of Tom Paine

in France there had been working class 'uprisings' in Lyons, the Canut silk weavers in 1831 and 1834, this is more the economic struggle between capital and labour, Engels wrote from the time of the Lyon rebellions  “the class struggle between proletariat and bourgeoisie came to the front in the history of the most advanced countries in Europe”

the 1844 Silesian Weavers uprising is comparable to the Lyons Silk weavers

1848 in Europe is the bourgeois still as revolutionary class trying to wrest power from feudal, aristocratic, autocratic elites

I think the 'June Days' in Paris June 1848 is when the working class realise fully the enemy is the bourgeois class

Maybe start reading part 1 'Bourgeois and Proletarians' now...

SPC

Brian
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Joined: 08/11/2011

Père Duchêne wrote:

'A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of Communism' is sheer hyperbole for early 1848,

Like I tried to point out in #11 the  "sheer hyperbole"  or deliberate exaggeration was on the part of the capitalists and not Marx.  For him it was "a nursery tale" that all the opposition parties were 'communists'.

Yours For Positive Socialist Activity

Brian

mcolome1
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Joined: 04/11/2011

Still we have 'Nursery tales", for many peoples everything is communism, and they do not know what their real enemy is. In the US many workers believe that Barack Obama is a communist, and the  Democratic Party is a communist party, and the New York Time is a communist newspaper. It is like saying that there is a communist super-structure, and a capitalist structure, and there is not a prevailing bourgeois ideology. It is a real mess in the minds of thousands of workers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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