Skip to Content

Jesus was a communist

200 posts / 0 new
Last post
Marcos
Offline
Joined: 23/04/2017

roman wrote:

ALB, if you really want to learn about textual criticism, go to a University, or Seminary Library, and look up some textual criticism on Paul's Epistles, you don't go to the daily mail writing about a guy who looked at one codex ... these silly news stories are plenty and cheap, go to real scholarship.

The biggest biblical liars come out from the divinity schools and the religious seminary., one of the biggest biblical liars was Paul

The Bible is full of statements which indicate that the first one who rejected women is the so-called god of Israel.

Many of the epistles were not written by Paul,  He suffered from syphilis and he was not  able to write, and he uses opium to stand the pain, and opium produce hallucination

In the Congregations of the Jehovah Witness women are the more active one doing door to door preaching and working for the organizations, and men have all the privileges, men are allowed to talk standing up, but women must sit on a table, they must obey their husbands like slaves, 

According to the New Testaments women were the first one to see Jesus after his resurrection, and according to the Bible the apostles of Jesus were the ones who were  able to be witness of his resurrection, therefore, they had the same privileges as men, but Paul one of the founders of the Catholic church  changed everything. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ALB
Offline
Joined: 22/06/2011

Dave B wrote:
I didn’t think Josephus mentioned the Nasoreans or Nazzoreans.
No, but he does mention the "Nazarites". Just checked, as taking time off from selling Socialist Standards and pamphlets at the West London Peace Fair yesterday I bought a copy of The Works of Josephus, a 19th century reprint (1875) of William Whiston's classic 1737 translation  in a local bookshop for only £9. So, I'm equipped to re-enter the fray.

Here's the notorious passage (from Antiquities, Book XVIII, chapter 3) where some pious fraudster has made Josephus write:

Quote:
Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, -- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him ; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Josephus was writing around 93/94 AD (as the christians put it). The tampering with what Josephus might originally written (some reference to the christians and their beliefs perhaps) is blatant. A religious Jew such as Josephus would never have called Jesus "the Christ" (the Greek for Messiah) nor doubted that he would have been a man.

Only a christian would have, so giving away that one of them had tampered with the text. Whiston himself, in  an appendix entitled "The Testimonies of Josephus concerning Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, and James the Just vindicated",  concedes the point that it could only have been written by a christian, and uses this as evidence that Josephus himself must have secretly been "a Nazarene or Ebionite Jewish Christian". I don't think Roman's "modern scholars" set much credence to this theory (do they?)

Marcos
Offline
Joined: 23/04/2017

ALB wrote:

Dave B wrote:
I didn’t think Josephus mentioned the Nasoreans or Nazzoreans.
No, but he does mention the "Nazarites". Just checked, as taking time off from selling Socialist Standards and pamphlets at the West London Peace Fair yesterday I bought a copy of The Works of Josephus, a 19th century reprint (1875) of William Whiston's classic 1737 translation  in a local bookshop for only £9. So, I'm equipped to re-enter the fray.

Here's the notorious passage (from Antiquities, Book XVIII, chapter 3) where some pious fraudster has made Josephus write:

Quote:
Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, -- a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him ; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Josephus was writing around 93/94 AD (as the christians put it). The tampering with what Josephus might originally written (some reference to the christians and their beliefs perhaps) is blatant. A religious Jew such as Josephus would never have called Jesus "the Christ" (the Greek for Messiah) nor doubted that he would have been a man.

Only a christian would have, so giving away that one of them had tampered with the text. Whiston himself, in  an appendix entitled "The Testimonies of Josephus concerning Jesus Christ, John the Baptist, and James the Just vindicated",  concedes the point that it could only have been written by a christian, and uses this as evidence that Josephus himself must have secretly been "a Nazarene or Ebionite Jewish Christian". I don't think Roman's "modern scholars" set much credence to this theory (do they?)

The Nazarites are mentioned on Judges 13.5 of the Old Testament, and they were the peoples dedicated to God who had long hairs

Judges 13:5New International Version (NIV)

You will become pregnant and have a son whose head is never to be touched by a razor because the boy is to be a Nazirite, dedicated to God from the womb. He will take the lead in delivering Israel from the hands of the Philistines.”

And then Mathew changed it to indicate that he was from Nazareth ( a city that did not exist at

 

that time )

Matthew 2:23American Standard Version (ASV)

23 and came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth; that it might be fulfilled which was spoken through the prophets, a]" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">[a]that he should be called a Nazarene..

 

Original prophecy said that he was going to be born in Belen

Micah 5:2New International Version (NIV)

“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
    though you are small among the clansa]" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; position: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">[a] of Judah,
out of you will come for me
    one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
    from ancient times.”

 The Bible is a book full of craps and contradictions. They contradict each other. it does not make any difference if the teaching come from university or seminary and the best universities are owned by Jesuits, Salesian and Dominicos  many of them have a doctorate degree in Theology and doctoral degree in Medicine, Psychology, Sociologist and Economics. Those 3 congregations are called the Doctors of the Church. There were many sects in Israel who tried to be the real Christians and follower of Judaism, there was a group of Christrian who rejected the teaching of Paul  Evyionim-Nosrim  establish themselves  in the region known as Nazareth, and they called it  the city of the poor, because they had a bow of poverty, like the  Trapenses in Spain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

alanjjohnstone
Offline
Joined: 22/06/2011

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/buddha-box-remains-china-th...

Quote:
Remains of Prince Siddhartha Gautama, known as the Buddha or the “awakened one", who founded Buddhism and is believed to have lived around 566-486 BCE, may have been found

Now, what would happen if JC's body was discovered in some tomb and no ascension to heaven?

"I have no country to fight for; my country is the Earth, and I am a citizen of the World." - Eugene V. Debs

Marcos
Offline
Joined: 23/04/2017

alanjjohnstone wrote:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/buddha-box-remains-china-th...

Quote:
Remains of Prince Siddhartha Gautama, known as the Buddha or the “awakened one", who founded Buddhism and is believed to have lived around 566-486 BCE, may have been found

Now, what would happen if JC's body was discovered in some tomb and no ascension to heaven?

It is going to be an stampede. They would be forced to close or the bank branches known as churches. In Kashimir they claim that they had the tomb of Jesus. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dave B
Offline
Joined: 07/01/2015

i

 

Discussion of communism in the New York Times

 

 

Well if we have decided to drop the baton at least the New York Seems to have picked it up recently?

 

With “all goods should be held in common” and

 

“..private wealth as a form of theft and stored riches as plunder seized from the poor…”

 

WHAT!

 

SundayReview

 

NOV. 4, 2017

 

 

……….. Well into the second century, the pagan satirist Lucian of Samosata reported that Christians viewed possessions with contempt and owned all property communally. And the Christian writers of Lucian’s day largely confirm that picture: Justin Martyr, Tertullian and the anonymous treatise known as the Didache all claim that Christians must own everything in common, renounce private property and give their wealth to the poor. Even Clement of Alexandria, the first significant theologian to argue that the wealthy could be saved if they cultivated “spiritual poverty,” still insisted that ideally all goods should be held in common.

As late as the fourth and fifth centuries, bishops and theologians as eminent as Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa, Ambrose of Milan, Augustine and Cyril of Alexandria felt free to denounce private wealth as a form of theft and stored riches as plunder seized from the poor. The great John Chrysostom frequently issued pronouncements on wealth and poverty that make Karl Marx and Mikhail Bakunin sound like timid conservatives. According to him, there is but one human estate, belonging to all, and those who keep any more of it for themselves than barest necessity dictates are brigands and apostates from the true Christian enterprise of charity. And he said much of this while installed as Archbishop of Constantinople.

 

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/opinion/sunday/christianity-communism.html

 

 

There does seem to be double standards though.

 

When the Washington Post comes up with the following on the Ju/’hoansi of southern Africa with stuff like;

 

Imagine a life in which you would need to work only 12 to 17 hours per week. Your society would be egalitarian, with respect to both gender and social class, and all resources would be shared and not hoarded. With all of your free time, you could devote yourself to leisure, to spending time with family and to creating a strong community. Is this a communist utopia, the subject of the latest financial self-help book or a sustainable reality? In “Affluence Without Abundance: The Disappearing World of the Bushmen,” anthropologist James Suzman asks readers to consider what such a world might be like. And for an answer he presents the example of the Ju/’hoansi of southern Africa, a hunter-gatherer group whose numbers have dwindled radically but that still exists as a living reminder of a lifestyle that all humans embraced until the dawn of agriculture, roughly 12,000 years ago

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/bushmen-who-have-little-have-much-to-teach-us-about-living-well/2017/08/25/d721c53c-7dda-11e7-83c7-5bd5460f0d7e_story.html?utm_term=.0e52b097ef1e

 

 

It seems liker safer ground; like they don’t have religious paraphernalia as well.

alanjjohnstone
Offline
Joined: 22/06/2011

I keep asking myself, how we can make use of this Christian history for our benefit. We have less reluctance to use anthropology of "primitive communism" (a term i have increasing aversion to...what is so primitive about it ) to promote the case for socialism but when we discover communist aspirations within religion , we appear to be hesitant. Not just Christianity but also the Sangha communities in Buddhism and the theologians may direct us to other elements.

I wonder if it may be a reason that a few socialists associated with us joined the church, by recognising a similarity?

"I have no country to fight for; my country is the Earth, and I am a citizen of the World." - Eugene V. Debs

Marcos
Offline
Joined: 23/04/2017

alanjjohnstone wrote:

I keep asking myself, how we can make use of this Christian history for our benefit. We have less reluctance to use anthropology of "primitive communism" (a term i have increasing aversion to...what is so primitive about it ) to promote the case for socialism but when we discover communist aspirations within religion , we appear to be hesitant. Not just Christianity but also the Sangha communities in Buddhism and the theologians may direct us to other elements.

I wonder if it may be a reason that a few socialists associated with us joined the church, by recognising a similarity?

I think Engels used the expression: Early Christians, and he analyzed the early socialist christians which were called utopian socialists, and Marx took the labour voucher from the Utopian socialists. Marx said it very clear: The critique on capitalism is the critique to religion and the critique to religion is the critique  to capitalism. Are all religious peoples willing to raise critiques against capitalism or viceversa  ? 

https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/socialism-and-religion. This pamphlet explains very clear our stand on religion and socialism

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

alanjjohnstone
Offline
Joined: 22/06/2011

What are the core ideas of socialism? 

Isaac Rab of the WSPUS wrote that the minimum to be a socialist a person simply needs to realise that: 1. Capitalism can no longer be administered or reformed in the interest of the working class or of society. 2. Capitalism is incapable of eliminating poverty, wars, crises, etc. 3. Socialism can solve the social problems confronting society today, since the material conditions are ripe for socialism, save the lack of a socialist majority. 

Capitalism cannot be reformed or administered in the interest of the working class or of society; Capitalism, as a social system, is in the interest of the ruling class (albeit that capitalism, historically, is an essential stage of social evolution); Socialism is the solution to the social problems and irreconcilable contradictions of capitalism; Socialism cannot be rammed down the workers’ throats against their wishes; The socialist victory is dependant upon the fervor and enthusiasm of the determined, conscious socialist majority; To establish socialism the workers must first gain control of the powers of government through their political organization. It is the recognition that the state is the central organ of power in the hands of the capitalist class. These are the characteristics of a socialist.

I am asking myself what are the benefits and what are the disadvantages in proscribing members who hold beliefs that are beyond those Rab categorized. 

We reach out to all workers and we understand the power of ideologies that dominate our thinking...So we try to convince workers to reject nationalism, patriotism and religion as divisive concepts to hold.

But we look to people to accept community and social solidarity.

Can sometimes people with religion promote those? 

Just throwing out there to see where it bounces

"I have no country to fight for; my country is the Earth, and I am a citizen of the World." - Eugene V. Debs

Login or register to post comments