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Jesus was a communist

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alanjjohnstone
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Jesus was a communist

https://progressivespirit.net/2017/07/22/jesus-was-a-communist/

A radio interview. 

A very long thread discussing aspects of the book in detail

https://libcom.org/forums/theory/book-first-second-century-christian-com...

"I have no country to fight for; my country is the Earth, and I am a citizen of the World." - Eugene V. Debs

ALB
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That's assuming that he ever "was" when there's no solid evidence for vthis. Quite the opposite, only forgeries.

DJP
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I have the book, it looks quite interesting. Though it's talking about the early Christians, who definitely did exist and left things written down, not Jesus the person - if there ever was such a man.

Vin
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The material conditions for communism did not exist,  so if he existed he couldn't possibly have been a communist nor could the ealy christians. They were utopians, surprise, surprise! Nothing new there then.

DJP
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Did the material conditions for communism exist in 1848?

Tim Kilgallon
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ALB wrote:

That's assuming that he ever "was" when there's no solid evidence for vthis. Quite the opposite, only forgeries.

Absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence, as they say.


Tim Kilgallon
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DJP wrote:

Did the material conditions for communism exist in 1848?

I think you could say the material conditions existed to consider that communism was a possibility in the not too distant future.


ALB
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Tim Kilgallon wrote:

ALB wrote:

That's assuming that he ever "was" when there's no solid evidence for vthis. Quite the opposite, only forgeries.

Absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence, as they say.

True, but the only evidence is stories written down years later and forgeries by christian monks. No non-christian mentions him as a historical figure, only a cult based on a person called "Jesus". Redeemer cults, of which original christianity was one, were common in the Hellenistic world.

Here's a review of a book on the subject from 1911:

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1910s/1911/no-80-a...

See also Nicholas Walter's reply here:

http://socialiststandardmyspace.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/jesus-christ-myth...

alanjjohnstone
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There is a long and detailed thread on Libcom that may be of interest in the debate and well worth the read.

https://libcom.org/forums/theory/book-first-second-century-christian-com...

"I have no country to fight for; my country is the Earth, and I am a citizen of the World." - Eugene V. Debs

Tim Kilgallon
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ALB wrote:

Tim Kilgallon wrote:

ALB wrote:

That's assuming that he ever "was" when there's no solid evidence for vthis. Quite the opposite, only forgeries.

Absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence, as they say.

True, but the only evidence is stories written down years later and forgeries by christian monks. No non-christian mentions him as a historical figure, only a cult based on a person called "Jesus". Redeemer cults, of which original christianity was one, were common in the Hellenistic world.

Here's a review of a book on the subject from 1911:

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/socialist-standard/1910s/1911/no-80-a...

See also Nicholas Walter's reply here:

http://socialiststandardmyspace.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/jesus-christ-myth...

Josephus (possibly) referenced Jesus, so it's' not completely accurate to say that it is definite that a non-Christian writer never mentioned him as a historical figure. 


ALB
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Tim Kilgallon wrote:
Josephus (possibly) referenced Jesus, so it's' not completely accurate to say that it is definite that a non-Christian writer never mentioned him as a historical figure.
No, he didn't. Except by fanatical christians, this reference is generally accepted as a forgery. Did you read Nicholas Walter's letter where he points our:
Quote:
The early Christians were acutely aware of the absence of good evidence for the life and death of Jesus, so they perpetrated what were called “pious frauds” to fill the gap. In the second century Justin and Tertullian referred to official reports by Pontius Pilate, and in the fourth century Eusebius quoted letters between Paul and Seneca. Above all, some time between the early third century and the early fourth century, the famous reference to Jesus was interpolated into Josephus's history of the Jews. This forgery destroys itself, since it makes Josephus, who was a religious Jew, refer to Jesus as if he were the Messiah and a divine being. None of this material is accepted by any serious Christian scholar today.
Of course in the end it doesn't matter whether or not Jesus existed. Even if he did, christianity is still a load of crap. After all, Mohammed existed as a historical figure and that doesn't stop islam being a load of crap too.

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