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Debate: Did Lenin Distort Marx?

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Debate: Did Lenin Distort Marx?
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jondwhite
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Anyone who's listened to Monty Johnstones unusual interpretation of Lenin, might find his interpretation of Trotsky interesting here;

https://archive.org/details/CPGBYoungCommunistLeagueCogito1968Issue5

ALB
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What, did Trotsky distort Lenin?

LBird
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Another way of looking at this, is to say that Lenin didn't so much 'distort Marx' as 'follow Engels'.

Whatever Lenin claimed he was doing, he wasn't following Marx in any way at all.


mcolome1
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LBird wrote:

Another way of looking at this, is to say that Lenin didn't so much 'distort Marx' as 'follow Engels'.

Whatever Lenin claimed he was doing, he wasn't following Marx in any way at all.

So, The dictatorship of the Proletariat distorted by Lenin in the State and the Revolution was taken from Engels?  

Lenin wrote that the center idea of Marxism was the dictatorship of the proletariat. 

Was that idea developed by Engels? No, It was a wrong conception developed by Marx, and still Leninists are supporting the same wrong conception

Lenin Vanguard Party to lead was taken from Engels? That conception comes from the Jacobin, and Ferdinand Lasalle, one of the opponents of Marx, and then Kautsky continued with the same idea. Did they take it from Engels? 

The concept of the permanent revolution developed by Marx and distorted by Trotsky and Lenin was taken from Engels?   

 

Those are the three fundamental bases of Leninism. I think you have a pathological obsession with Engels

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

mcolome1
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Everything about Lenin vs Marx was discussed on this thread

https://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/forum/general-discussion/lenin-and-m...

In this thread, L Bird tried to ride on his favorite little horse, but instead, he received several knockouts. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

LBird
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mcolome1 wrote:
 I think you have a pathological obsession with Engels

And I think you have a pathological obsession with defending Engels' 'Materialism', mcolome1.

As did Lenin.


Vin
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LBird distorts Marx. LBird is opposed to local communities making decisions which affect them. He  subscribes to an ultra-centralised Leninist model of complete society-wide decision making on everything. 

He is clearly a Leninist elitist,  who does not support local and regional forms of decision making.

He avoids defending this position and jumps from thread to thread with his boring repetitive and unsubstantiated accusations against the SPGB

 

Young Master Smeet
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On this issue, I thought the detractors of Engels were the ones who noted his adherence to Social Democrats, and Marx was the more rrrrevolutionary of the two, and that Lenin rediscovered the true Marx, past the social democrat turns of Engels.

mcolome1
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LBird wrote:

mcolome1 wrote:
 I think you have a pathological obsession with Engels

And I think you have a pathological obsession with defending Engels' 'Materialism', mcolome1.

As did Lenin.

Pathology comes from suffering, you are the one that is suffering from Engels obsession, it is like a love-hate relationship,  I am happy and content with the ideas that I have in my head. 

I am open in my thoughts, and I am not afraid in recognizing when I am wrong.  I do not defend blindly anyone of them, I do not worship any one of them as you do, even more, I do recognize that both were mistaken in certain aspects of their body of ideas, but that will not stop to recognize that both made contributions to the arsenal of socialist idea. What you are defending now, I defended it many years ago, your new ideas, are old to me 

The only thing that I know is that you are a Leninist in disguise, like the International Communist Current, or the Marxist-Humanist who have rejected Engels, but they kept Leninism or CLR James who rejected certain aspects of Lenin but kept Leninism. As I told you before, I have traveled too many roads

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

mcolome1
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By the way. Why you only show up when there is a thread about Engels?  Don't you care about others social issues, like hunger, wars, class struggle, etc, etc, etc,?  Is Engels your class struggle? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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