@Alan Johnstone, about your

April 2024 Forums General discussion Marx and Automation @Alan Johnstone, about your

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Anonymous
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@Alan Johnstone, about your post 192. . .

alanjjohnstone wrote:
I have been following this debate and MB if you have not considered that Robbo's rebuttal has not made you feel the necessity to return to your study and re-frame it somewhat, then it has not been a productive exchange at all.A little too often for my personal liking you have said you accept that Marx was correct then off you go endeavouring to prove he was either wrong or wrongly interpreted and only your own insight into what he really meant is accurate.I will now give you the benefit of the doubt. You are indeed correct in your ideas. Marx's analysis of capital led to him declaring that the proletariat because they are robbed (exploited) and because their sustenance is thwarted by capitalist laws then they would be the vehicle for social change.  A bit deterministic granted but Marx does add sufficient caveats that other factors arise in creating revolutionary consciousness.A question. Since for argument's sake, i accept your economic analysis…can you tell me how it will be changed and into what. So far i have only the Bakuninist rabble as the agency of change. But even they must have some motivation to spur them into action – and to old some idea of direction.MB please expand on how a new society will come about through an understanding and acceptance of your economic model  of "present-day modern capitalism."It's hackneyed to say this …but philosophers have only interpreted the world…the point is to change it. 

I have a book on my best guess, but it's long and couched in analogy and metaphore to try and make it clear to people who would otherwise try to limit it by forcing it into a capitalist or socialist frame of reasoning.  Also the mods "gently chastise me" and then "lovingly block my communications" when I try to add links to it here.  So not much I can do to answer your question.  Also, I don't know, my insight solution is a sliding scale price tag that makes a profit for the busines and simultaneously reduces income innequality and leads to a multi-currency economy.   But predicting exactly what happens after and how it's interpreted in a language limited by marx terminolgy is probably not possible or worth doing.  Explaning this in marx terminology is like predicting what happens when you introduce an invasive species of ants into an ecosystem economy and a food web ecossystem based on ants and other animals in a small texas valley with it's own unique weather.  If your model of the food web is limited by aggregating all biomass into aggregate callorie flows between animals and plants then it won't have the words to explain an invasive species of fire ants.  It's like asking how does crusoe on crusoe's island function and explain when europeans come in and add pigs to the island ecosystem and economy?  Answer is that it doesn't make sense to explain a concept about pigs as an invasive species in an island model where all animals are counted as equal and treated equally.  All you could say is the biomass will still equal  the productive output of the island.  So marx alone and a discussion limited to marx categories and lexicon is not going to prove much value to understanding this.  you could try explaing that the pigs will kill off the flightless birds and tear up certain specefic plants and spread over the island in common language using a metaphor. But if you tried to fit that concept into a max argument about the animals vs the plants and exploitation of plants by animals in general as aggregate bio-mass flows. . .Well you don't get far except to resort to the marx platitudes that are true enough of aggregates without explaining the phenomenae of an invasive species in any meaningfull way. I'm going to introduce a sliding scale price tag that is convenient and ubuiquitous to use for buying things like a coffee at startbuks because it makes the profit money so someone will do it sooner or later and if I do it first then I can maybe control the technology for good it and already I found how to make it reduce income innequality.  My project which you can find by a google search "code for san francisco" and then clicking on the projects page  link and scrolling down to click on the project labeled "hours equals price project", is focused on crowdsourcing research to answer the very question you pose.  What does the existence of a convenient and profitable sliding scale price tag that reduces income innequality mean for society?  A very good question that I was really hoping the people here could answer for me.  All I know for sure is a lot of financial tech is converging on this solution and I just got there first because I listened to you guys and I'm really smart.  So whether I build it or they do is just a question of who's faster and works harder at owning the infrastructure of exchange with this concept. I'm pretty sure it's better if I build it and pretty sure it's better for poor people with it growing and becoming common usage and social norms sooner instead of later.  But after that its pretty much just wild speculation too long and tentative to be allowed as post here or even a link.